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am Donnerstag 23.01.2025, 19:30 Uhr!
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Eingeladen sind auch alle, die bereits Erfahrungen mit Mastodon, Friendica, Pixelfed, Misskey oder anderen Anwendungen haben und ihr Wissen gerne weitergeben mchten.
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Der Link: kommt wird hier 1 Tag vor Beginn gepostet und steht in meinem Profil.
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Der Ablauf der Sprechstunde sieht folgendermaen aus: Zu Beginn geben wir Tipps und Hinweise fr Anfnger und Einsteiger. Anschlieend geht es um Ratschlge fr Instanzbetreiber und Moderatoren. Ein solcher Austausch ist wichtig und notwendig fr eine gute Vernetzung untereinander. Es wird nicht nur um Mastodon gehen, denn die Welt des Fediverse ist weitaus grer. Mehr Miteinander statt Gegeneinander.
Je mehr mitmachen, desto besser!
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Hubzilla do u have experience with streams
Yes, I've got of my own.
Is it being maintained
Yes. Even though the main (and pretty much only) maintainer has declared his retirement effective September 1st, (streams) still unceremoniously rolls out new versions every couple days.
Is it compatible w masto clients
Nope.
And to be honest, it wouldn't even make sense. A Mastodon app couldn't even cover 10% of (streams)' features as it only covers Mastodon features. It wouldn't give (streams) users access to important, essential, even critical features just because Mastodon doesn't have them.
No threaded conversations. Maybe not even reading replies at all. No text formatting. No posting images. No CWs. No alt-text. No handling connections. No permission control whatsoever. I'd be surprised if you could even reply to anyone. You couldn't do much more than post in public.
On a phone, you've only got two choices, both of which mean you'll use the Web interface:
- Use it in a browser.
- Use a browser to install (streams) as a Progressive Web App.
Just so you know what I'm talking about, and just in case you've missed it:
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(streams) That's kind of difficult, actually.
Technically speaking, there is Friendica which was created in 2010 as a Facebook alternative (better than Facebook rather than an outright Facebook clone), and there are Hubzilla and (streams), both descendants of Friendica created by Friendica's creator. They're quite powerful, (streams) more than Friendica and Hubzilla even more than (streams), and they've got everything you need for social networking.
I've made a series of tables that compare these three with one another and with Mastodon.
But if you say, "app," I suppose you mean, "dedicated native mobile phone app." This is the first hindrance. Native specialised phone apps are only available for Friendica and then only for Android and Sailfish OS. The only iOS Friendica app is a closed beta it exists, but you have to join its beta test program instead of being able to load it from the App Store easy-peasy.
Technically, you can use Friendica with some apps made for Mastodon. But you'll only have those features that Mastodon has, too. You won't see threaded conversations. You won't have text formatting. You won't have groups. You won't be able to post pictures. You won't have any access to any configuration. And so forth. You'll only have the absolute, bare-bone basics.
Otherwise, and for Hubzilla and (streams) generally, there's no way around the Web interface (browser, PWA).
As for community building, Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) not only support groups, but they have groups/forums, optionally even private ones. Organisational presentation is possible, too. All three have blogging-level support of text formatting in their posts all the way to embedding an unlimited number of images right in the middle of a post. So a group could make an introduction post with headlines and bullet-point lists and tables and pictures and all the shebang and pin it at the top for all (permitted) visitors to see. Hubzilla even supports simple webpages which could be used for presentation.
"Easy and clear," that's the issue here. Friendica has quite a bit of a learning curve. (streams) has an even steeper learning curve. Hubzilla has the steepest learning curve of all three. None of them has the UI/UX of something created by a Silicon Valley start-up from $50,000,000 of venture capital.
Ironically, Hubzilla is the one with the best user documentation. But what I mean is not the user documentation built into the hubs, but that's intended to be built into Hubzilla itself one day and replace the old documentation. If you want to peruse it, you'll have to be told by an experience Hubzilla user that it exists, and where you can find it. Still, Hubzilla is highly complex with quite a bit of pitfalls and the worst UX of the three.
, but it mostly covers how-tos for certain things instead of being a full-blown user manual.
(streams)' built-in help system is gradually being rebuilt from zero, but in the style of a technical specification again. And it's very incomplete.
Still, you will need some kind of documentation to get started with all three, ideally plus how-tos for Facebook refugees on how to get started and then do Facebook things. You can't use on either of the three what you've learned from Facebook. They do have everything you need as a Facebook refugee, but it looks different, it feels different,
it works differently.
For example, if you're on either of the three, and you're looking for the place where you can create a new group/forum, you can look forever in vain. Unlike on Facebook, groups/forums are not an additional feature of their own. They're accounts (Friendica)/channels (Hubzilla, (streams)) like your user account/channel, but with special settings. This alone makes many Facebook users scream out that this feature is completely unuseable, simply because it isn't what they expect it to be.
In addition, if you run a Friendica group on the same node as your personal account, you have to log out and back in again to administer or moderate the group and to get gack to your account. But nobody tells you to have your group on another node than your personal account.
On Hubzilla and (streams), it's the opposite: It's better to not only have a group or forum on the same instance as your personal channel, but
on the same account. You can have multiple channels, multiple fully separate identities on the same account because your identity is fully detached from your account. If you have your personal channel and your forum channel on the same account, you can jump back and forth between the two. But this is something that practically doesn't exist outside of Hubzilla and (streams), and so, nobody will tell you about this feature.
Even if you can wrap your mind around all this, you still aren't over the hump. Especially not on Hubzilla and (streams). On Hubzilla, you can have a restricted or private group/forum. But you have to dive into the permission settings of your forum channel, a place where you're being warned that you have to act carefully, and set the corresponding permissions accordingly by hand. On (streams), there's less to configure and no warning instead, there are not one, but
four types of forums. But neither the Web interface nor the documentation tells you what's what, and what does what.
Another idea, but much less like Facebook, would be . Technically, Mbin is an alternative to Reddit and Hacker News and kind of feels like Reddit, UI-wise. But it also offers personal microblogging instead of being limited to only group discussions, and it's much more compatible with the rest of the Fediverse.
There are two caveats again. One, most Mbin users are former Redditors. This means that Mbin's culture = Reddit's culture, including, but not limited to dank maymays, shitposts all over the place and potentially also power-tripping mods (if you want to join existing Mbin magazines (= subreddits) rather than starting new ones). However, I guess that Mbin, on average, is not as hostile and xenophobic towards the rest of the Fediverse as large parts of Lemmy are.
Two, again, there's no iPhone app that works with Mbin. For Android, there's Interstellar. For iOS, there's only the Web interface.
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Mbin Fedi isn't meant for that. It doesn't provide encryption.
Mastodon doesn't. But just because Mastodon doesn't, doesn't mean it isn't available anywhere in the Fediverse.
() and () offer groups/forums like Facebook groups. These groups can even be made private. This means:
- These groups aren't listed in directories.
- You can't see the group profile unless you're a member.
- You can't see what's happening in the group unless you're a member.
- You can't see the members of the group unless you're a member yourself.
- You can join public Hubzilla or (streams) groups from Mastodon, but you can't join private Hubzilla or (streams) groups from Mastodon, only from Hubzilla or (streams). And even then, your group membership must be manually approved.
- Groups can theoretically even have various ranks of memberships with various levels of permission. So even new members may not see everything.
- Conversations within private groups are hidden from everyone who isn't part of the conversation. They don't show up on federated Mastodon timelines, full stop. They're like DMs, but not necessarily with only two participants.
If you
really want to talk in private, you and your counterpart can
activate encryption, exchange a common password and communicate with encryption both on the servers and during transmission. In theory, even groups/forums can activate and, if so desired, use this form of encryption.
And Hubzilla and (streams) are very much part of the Fediverse. I'm on Hubzilla right now, and you can read this on Mastodon.
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(streams)Technology has advanced to the point where we can order food from our phones, but we still can't order a decent night's sleep.
Footjob While Pissing on His Cock with Long Toenails Ends with Cum on Feet in Bathtub
There is no official Friendica app.
For Friendica on an iPhone, you've got four options:
- , the only dedicated Friendica app for the iPhone, but it's a closed beta (as in unfinished and potentially buggy), and you have to join the
- Try to make do with a Mastodon app and live with not having at least 80% of Friendica's features
- Friendica's Web interface as a Progressive Web App
- Friendica's Web interface in a standard Web browser
If you think you can live with the Web interface in either way, (streams) and Hubzilla, both made by Friendica's creator, may be interesting for you, too.
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iOS Friendica or, better yet, (streams) or Hubzilla.
Friendica has been around since 2010. It's the oldest surviving Fediverse project. It even predates diaspora* by several months. It was created with the very intent of having an alternative to Facebook that's better than Facebook.
Hubzilla was created in 2015 from a 2012 Friendica fork, all by Friendica's own creator. So it's older than Mastodon, too.
(streams) is from 2021, the most technologically advanced of the bunch. It was created by the same guy who also made Friendica, Hubzilla and everything in-between, and who still maintains it.
There's also the (streams) fork Forte which is basically (streams) with a name, a brand identity and a license and without any support for the Nomad protocol, only using ActivityPub for everything. But I don't recommend it as long as it isn't officially declared stable.
"Unshittified, decentralized, and free" applies to all four. Friendica was relicensed by its new maintainers from the MIT license to the GNU Affero GPL in 2012. Hubzilla and Forte are still under the MIT license. And at least the core streams repository was intentionally released into the public domain.
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Forte 2024
A game-changing platform that is reshaping affiliate marketing in 2024. With its innovative approach, SoleLinks has introduced tools and strategies that address long-standing challenges while paving the way for a more streamlined, fair, and effective affiliate ecosystem.
New entry of AI-generated and added to our :
The and the
Find the latitdue and longitude of any place Here's something that you may want to take a look at, something that's being developed in Australia right now, something that next to nobody in the Fediverse has heard of: ().
It has very good native groups support. This includes four preset levels of public vs private as well as the possibility of appointing other Hubzilla and (streams) users as co-admins via the permissions system.
(streams) recognises all kinds of Fediverse group actors as such and lists them in its directory as such: Lemmy communities, /kbin and Mbin magazines, PieFed communities, Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, Guppe groups etc. However, while I've managed to (probably) join a Lemmy community with one of my (streams) channels, I've yet to see new posts from that community. It could be a settings issue on my side, it could be because my community membership has never been approved by the community mods, I don't know.
(streams) does not have Hubzilla's full-blown Gallery app, but it does have the Photo app which also allows outsiders to take a look into your various photo albums. Also, it allows you to embed any number of images anywhere in a post with virtually no limits.
Killer feature: You can add alt-text to images upon uploading or after uploading in the Photo app. This means that you can post an image a gajillion times, always automatically with the same alt-text.
As for videos, you can embed remote videos from various sources in (streams) posts. You can also upload video files to the file space built into your channel and probably embed them into your posts, but (streams) can't do peer-to-peer load balancing like PeerTube. I don't make videos, and even if I did, the effort of probably describing them would be beyond my capabilities, so I can't test the latter.
Mastodon support is as good as it ever comes. The "obstacles" are the same as on Friendica. Both generate potentially weird hashtags and even weirder mentions from a Mastodon POV. Mastodon CWs are done with
abstract/abstract
or
abstract=apub/abstract
on Friendica and
summary/summary
or
<details><summary></summary></details>
on (streams).
That said, you can't use (streams) with a dedicated native app. Like, at all. There's no (streams) app, and it doesn't work with Mastodon apps, in part because the dev doesn't want to have Mastodon code in his work, in part because it wouldn't even make sense. The closest you can get is by installing (streams) as a progressive Web app.
But if you stick with Friendica, don't use it with a Mastodon app. Tusky is built for Mastodon and only supports Mastodon features. If Friendica has a feature, but Mastodon doesn't have it, you can't use that feature through a Mastodon app. No text formatting, no groups, no titles, no conversations, no embedded images etc.
For an Android phone, look at RaccoonForFriendica. On the desktop, there's no replacement for the Web interface in a browser in both cases.
Still, if (streams) looks interesting, and you want to try it before installing it, don't go looking for public instances. You won't find them. Ask me instead. And when you set up your own instance, you can use to move or even clone your channel over to your own instance.
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(streams) From an outside-of-Mastodon point of view (I'm posting this from ), I can see schisms through the Fediverse happen quite easily.
For example:
- One side: Mastodon fundamentalists who want to enforce the Mastodon culture and the Mastodon "rules" (both as established by the first wave of Twitter refugees in the mid-2010s, based solely on Mastodon 3.x and completely ignoring the rest of the Fediverse) all over the whole Fediverse. And everything that doesn't comply must be defederated.
- The other side: Places that can do the same as Mastodon, but that aren't Mastodon, and that have their very own culture, not to mention features which are deeply engrained in their culture, but forbidden in Mastodon's culture. Pleroma and its forks. Misskey and its forks, fork-forks, fork-fork-rewrites etc. Friendica and its family tree. And so forth.
Or, although this may become obsolete:
- One side: Those on Mastodon who don't want to have quote-posts in the Fediverse.
- The other side: Again, just about everything that isn't Mastodon while capable of doing Mastodon things, because it all does have quote-posts right now.
A variant that's more likely to happen soon:
- One side: Mastodon, full stop. It has introduced quote-posts. It has also introduced a quote-post opt-in or opt-out switch. This switch, however, is proprietary, non-standard and completely incompatible with the rest of the Fediverse.
On top of this, as demanded in that one quote-post feature request, there's a new rule for all Mastodon instances: Any and all Fediverse instances which "circumvent" Mastodon's quote-post opt-in or opt-out switch to quote-post Mastodon toots must be regarded "rogue" and Fediblocked. - On the other side: Once again, just about everything that isn't Mastodon, but that can do what Mastodon can do. Once again, it can quote-post right now. It can also quote-post Mastodon toots right now. And it won't know that proprietary, non-standard, Mastodon-only opt-in or opt-out. So it can quote-post any and all Mastodon toots with zero resistance.
The logical result: All Mastodon instances must immediately block all instances of Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp-JS, Iceshrimp.NET, CherryPick, Sharkey, Catodon, Neko, Meisskey, Tanukey, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte etc. etc. All instances of all of these have quote-posts. They can all quote-post Mastodon toots. And when Mastodon introduces the opt-in or opt-out switch, they won't know that switch. And what they don't know, they can't heed. So they'll still be able to quote-post any and all Mastodon toots, completely regardless (and oblivious) of opt-in or opt-out status.
This, however, is against the new rule that states that all instances that can quote-post toots that shall not be quote-posted must be blocked. Which applies to all of them. Thus, all of them, every last one of them, must be defederated.
If properly carried out, this would fully separate several dozen entire Fediverse server applications from Mastodon. The only reason why these server applications won't be fully separated is because it's a game of whack-a-mole. Mastodon can't defederate entire server applications by user agent (this is possible and actually implemented on both (streams) and Forte), so server applications have to be defederated instance by instance.
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FediSchism You can forget diaspora* for three reasons.
- One, it doesn't support ActivityPub and never will. That's a design decision.
- Two, it can't hold a candle to any Facebook alternative with ActivityPub.
- Three, it's withering away, if not outright dying. A couple days before New Year's Eve, several big pods shut down. According to one source, diaspora* lost more than half its users within some three days. And in a few days, another big pod, diasp.org, will disappear.
Notice that I've written, "
any Facebook alternative with ActivityPub." There's more than one. There's more than Friendica. It's just that most Fediverse users only know Friendica by name from hearsay and everything else not at all.
So without further ado:
Would you like security and privacy by means of an advanced, fine-grained permissions system
Does resiliance against instance shutdown in the shape of sound good to you
Don't you mind a bit more of a learning curve
Don't your family members mind using something via its Web interface, and can they (or can you) install a progressive Web app on their phones
If so, look past Friendica and straight at the thing colloquially called
().
It's actually a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork) of a fork of Friendica, and all forks in this line are by the same creator as Friendica itself who still maintains (streams).
(streams) offers just about everything that Friendica offers and then some on top (like polls). The only thing that's missing is Friendica's vast connection and federation capability beyond the Fediverse. Still, (streams) can connect to everything in the Fediverse like Mastodon, Pixelfed, PeerTube, Friendica, Hubzilla, Misskey, Sharkey, Iceshrimp, Lemmy, Mbin, PieFed etc. etc.
If you're interested, don't go looking for (streams) instances. It's absent from the Fediverse Observer, it's absent from the FediDB, and that's fully intentional. But there are currently two open-registration (streams) instances.
The one in North America is
in the USA, run by
Waitman Gobble. The one in Europe is
in Hungary, run by the German admin
Der Pepe (nomd) (more active as
Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ) who also speaks English.
If you need a support forum, follow
Streams with your Mastodon account, wait until it follows you back, and then ask away. Don't forget to mention it.
Only if at least some of your family members absolutely cannot live without a native mobile phone app, I'd suggest Friendica. Even then, there are only Android apps geared towards Friendica. The only iOS app for Friendica, Relatica, is in closed beta, and you have to apply for it.
In general, if you're on an iPhone, and you want to leave Facebook for the Fediverse, you've got three options:
- Friendica, Hubzilla or (streams) + the Web interface (either in a browser or as a PWA)
- Friendica + apply for the Relatica beta
- Friendica + a Mastodon app straight from the App Store that doesn't even cover 20% of Friendica's features
If you need help with Friendica, there's a discussion group for that, too: .
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(streams) If you're looking for a more advanced Facebook alternative with (), and if you can live without connecting to diaspora* and subscribing to RSS/Atom feeds, you may want to check out , a fork of a fork (insert lots of more forks) of Friendica by Friendica's creator ( ).
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FacebookAlternative A few additions:
- (official Misskey server list alternative to and Threads caution: misskey.io is blocked by almost all western Fediverse instances)
- (official Friendica node list alternative to Facebook)
- (known instances of a (streams) instance filtered for (streams) instances alternative to Facebook)
- (official Mbin server list alternative to Reddit and Hacker News)
- (official PieFed instance list alternative to Reddit and Hacker News)
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PieFed That'd be an as-of-yet untouched use-case for Hubzilla.
Set up a channel just for the Constitution. Put it on a series of webpages. Or articles. Or cards. Or into a wiki for everyone's navigation convenience. Next, clone the channel across hubs under various jurisdictions on various continents, just in case.
It doesn't really federate onto people's timelines because there's no point in following it. But still, it's next to impossible to wipe out. Need a new copy Just clone it again.
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CWUSPol Not
the alternative. But the oldest from a whole family of alternatives, all from the same developer, that spans 14 years of development.
It's just that, while Friendica is obscure (although it has been around since 2010), Hubzilla (from 2012/2015) is much more obscure, (streams) (from 2021) is almost entirely unknown outside of the Hubzilla community, and Forte (from last August) is still experimental.
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Forte I don't want to add yet another thing - do you know of any other site where people can simply ask questions and/or look at already answered questions (without needing another account)
Some Fediverse server applications that have built-in support for groups/forums have their own support groups/forums which you can (and have to) join to ask for support for these specific applications.
Friendica:
Hubzilla:
Hubzilla Support Forum (and various others which are practically inactive)
(streams):
StreamsI don't know of any such groups for the Fediverse in general. But then again, today's Fediverse is still absolutely Mastodon-centric, and Mastodon doesn't even know what a group is.
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(streams) Friendica
is growing significantly, but significantly by Friendica's standards. For one, that's because Friendica is too unknown in today's Fediverse, and so, many Mastodon users are pulling Facebook users to Mastodon because they don't know any better. Besides, Facebook users are a great deal less willing to leave than Instagram or Threads users.
I mean, Friendica is measured by Mastodon's standards. If it doesn't have hundreds of thousands of registered users and big instances with at least tens of thousands of registered users, it's tiny. But Friendica doesn't want to have gigantic, semi-monolithic lighthouse nodes. And in fact, it's a Friendica tradition to purge accounts that have been inactive for long enough.
Friendica's culture is much, much different from Mastodon's culture. But it's also much, much older than Mastodon's culture.
As for Hubzilla, at least three out of four Fediverse users have never even heard or read the name. Even most of those who have heard of Friendica think that Friendica is the only one of its kind in the Fediverse.
If you ask me, (streams) would make for an even better Facebook alternative than Hubzilla, and I use both (and write to you from Hubzilla now). But (streams) is even more obscure. It's only known by Hubzilla users and its own users, and everyone on (streams) either used to be or still is on Hubzilla. And unless they actually use (streams), they don't know more than its name and that it has lost some Hubzilla features, and that's all. It doesn't help that it's almost impossible to find the two public, open-registration (streams) instances.
Okay, another obstacle may be phone apps. There is no dedicated iOS app for Friendica yet, at least no stable release, so you'd have to make do with an app made for Mastodon. For Hubzilla, the only existing app is on F-Droid, has been unmaintained for over five years and mostly uses the Web interface. For (streams), there are no apps at all. All three can be installed as progressive Web apps, but 99.99% of all smartphone users don't even know what that is and require something they can pull from an app store.
Lastly, none of the three is the outright Facebook
clone that many want to have, and so they all have a learning curve that's steeper than Mastodon's or Pixelfed's. But then again, Facebook itself is from a time before everything had to be a no-brainer geared towards total dumb-dumbs, and so Facebook itself has a learning curve which long-time Facebook users have totally forgotten about.
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(streams) Let's see.
Friendica: created by a professional software developer with three decades of experience
Mastodon: created by a kid almost fresh out of school
Friendica: adheres to ActivityPub standards
Mastodon: flips the bird at standards, keeps developing its own proprietary and non-standard things and tries to force them upon the rest of the Fediverse
Friendica: aims to connect not only to the whole Fediverse and support it, but also to connect to a whole lot of things outside the ActivityPub-based Fediverse
Mastodon: seemingly intentionally makes everything that isn't Mastodon look broken or faulty
Friendica: shows you what server software a post, a comment or a DM came from
Mastodon: tries to make everyone believe that everything in the Fediverse is from Mastodon
Friendica: counts your unread items
Mastodon: doesn't know the concept of "unread" you scroll down your timeline until you want no more, and you'll never know what you've never read although you should have
Friendica: conversations are enclosed objects with one (1) post at the top and otherwise any number of comments
Mastodon: doesn't know what conversations are, strings threads loosely together from posts and more posts
Friendica: timeline full of conversations with post and usually all comments
Mastodon: piecemeal timeline full of single posts which may or may not have replies, and which may or may not
be replies
Friendica: can both (optionally) send and properly render long-form Article-type objects
Mastodon: staunchly refuses to even render Article-type objects and turns them into links
You've already mentioned this:
Friendica: practically unlimited post length
Mastodon: 500 characters unless the admin hacks into the source code
Friendica: has titles
Mastodon: doesn't know what titles are
Friendica: can create the whole shebang of text formatting
Mastodon: can only create plain text and render a small subset of text formatting options
Friendica: take as many images as you want and embed them anywhere in your post in-line
Mastodon: only supports images as file attachments and only four of these, refuses to render in-line images
Friendica: built-in file space with its own file manager from which you can attach e.g. images and other media to your posts
Mastodon: your file attachments land somewhere that you can't see
Friendica: has had group support and built-in groups since its beginnings, but also recognises and supports group actors from elsewhere, e.g. Guppe groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups, Forte groups, Lemmy communities, Mbin magazines, PieFed communities
Mastodon: doesn't know what groups are, doesn't recognise them when it comes across them and doesn't know what to do with them
Friendica: has at least rudimentary permissions control
Mastodon: doesn't know what permissions are only knows a few privacy levels for posts, hiding your profile and hiding your contacts, that's all takes everything from Friendica, Hubzilla & Co. that isn't fully public as a PM because it doesn't know what else to do with it
Friendica: has had well-integrated circles since before diaspora* had aspects which Google+ ripped off as circles
Mastodon: had a clunky and user-unfriendly list feature glued on after the fact
Friendica: you can post only to the members of a circle, only they can see your post, only they can interact with your post, they can also interact with each other's comments
Mastodon: you can't post only to the members of a list
Friendica: built-in directory plus contact suggestions based on similarities in profiles and/or common connections, just like on Facebook
Mastodon: no directory, most servers require you to use the search to find new contacts, doesn't even have the profile fields for Facebook-level contact suggestions
Friendica: built-in federated event calendar
Mastodon: can't handle events
Friendica: can automatically generate reader-side content warnings for you individually from a list of keywords this has been deepy engrained into Friendica's culture for over a decade
Mastodon: uses the summary field for CWs that are forced upon everyone can use its filters to generate CWs like Friendica, but nobody knows, and this will never become part of Mastodon's culture
Friendica: community is open and friendly towards everyone who is open and friendly, no matter where they are, including non-ActivityPub places like diaspora*, because connecting with the whole world is one of Friendica's goals users are only irritated by obnoxious Mastodon fundamentalists
Mastodon: community is only open and friendly towards those who act like they're on Mastodon or even only who
are on Mastodon its culture is openly and unabashedly hostile against everything in the Fediverse that doesn't work exactly like Mastodon to the point of this hostility becoming part of Mastodon's culture users may attack and/or block you for as little as posting over 500 characters at once or otherwise doing things not the Mastodon way
Friendica: users are aware of the extents of the Fediverse and eager to connect to everywhere, even including beyond ActivityPub
Mastodon: every other user thinks the Fediverse
is Mastodon
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FriendicaDolphins In Depth: Who is the ideal backup QB for Dolphins
Hashtags haben hier verschiedene Funktionen.
Zunchst einmal ganz klassisch Auffindbarkeit von Beitrgen durch Suche. Dazu zhlt auch, da einige Fediverse-Serveranwendungen es auf verschiedene Arten mglich machen, Hashtags zu folgen, darunter auch Mastodon.
Hashtags sind aber auch ntzlich, um unerwnschten Content loszuwerden bzw. anderen dabei zu helfen, den eigenen Content loszuwerden, fr die er unerwnscht ist. Sie knnen z. B. gefiltert werden, und man kann beim Schreiben von Posts Hashtags nutzen, um Schlsselwrter zum Filtern elegant in Posts unterzubringen.
Es gibt auch an einigen Orten die Mglichkeit, mit Schlsselwortlisten Inhalte leserseitig automatisiert hinter Inhaltswarnungen zu verbergen. Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte haben das seit Anbeginn (2010, 2012, 2021, 2024), und was viele nicht zu wissen scheinen (oder es ist einfach nicht Teil von Mastodons Kultur), auch Mastodon hat diese Mglichkeit Ende 2022 in seine Filter eingebaut. Auch das kann man mit Hashtags untersttzen.
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Hashtags They all function the same way right
Nope, they can be fundamentally different underneath.
For example, just about everything that does micro- and/or macroblogging and that isn't Mastodon has an understanding of conversations to some degree. On Friendica, conversations are always objects which are one (1) post plus any number of comments.
Same on its descendants, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte which even have (they originated on (streams)). They can also have , they offer , and they have that combines with .
In fact, Hubzilla and (streams) aren't even based on ActivityPub. Hubzilla is based on an older version of the Nomad protocol which uses the Zot6 libraries ActivityPub is implemented via an add-on which is and . (streams) is based on the current version of Nomad ActivityPub is integrated into the core and optional and on by default on both server and channel level.
I guess it's obvious that none of this happens in the graphical frontend.
Or to come back to videos: Sure, you may be able to upload a video to Mastodon as a file attachment. But unlike PeerTube, Mastodon cannot actually stream videos from a channel, much less spread the load across multiple server instances using peer-to-peer technology.
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FediverseYesterday 15 years ago, was officially launched and connected to the Hypergrid. Today it is the oldest still existing German grid, the third-oldest grid overall and the only German grid that has ever managed to exist for 15 years. Starting today and until Sunday, this anniversary will be celebrated with four days of live and DJ events.
Notes
Event language is German. In-world translators will be provided for chat.
Thursday, January 16th
- 08:00 PM CET
11:00 grid time
Humourous presentation by Kueperpunk Korhonen - 09:00 PM CET
12:00 grid time
DJ Rubeus Helgerud - 10:00 PM CET
13:00 grid time
DJ Akira
Event location: Festival stage, , Dorenas World
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Landing/141/145/23
Friday, January 17th
- 07:00 PM CET-12:00 AM CET
10:00-15:00 grid time
DJ Anachron Young
Event location: Rock-House, , Dorenas World
(in-door)hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Nihilon/217/167/23
Saturday, January 18th
- Before and afterwards
DJ and moderation by Anachron Young - 08:00 PM CET
11:00 grid time
Wolem Wobbit live - When Wolem is done
DJ Sylvia Koeln
Event location: Festival stage, , Dorenas World
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Landing/141/145/23
Sunday, January 19th
- Before and afterwards
DJ and moderation by Anachron Young - 06:00 PM CET
09:00 grid time
John Winston Vandyke live - 08:00 PM CET
11:00 grid time
live
Event location: Festival stage, , Dorenas World
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Landing/141/145/23
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DorenasWorld I guess the majority of Mastodon users still thinks the Fediverse equals Mastodon, although their number may be shrinking.
Others may think that Friendica has only just been created because the Fediverse needed a Facebook equivalent. Little do they know that Friendica is the oldest still existing Fediverse server application, launched in July, 2010. And Friendica's own creator has made a whole number of forks and forks of forks of Friendica over all these years.
This means that
Friendica is not the only Facebook equivalent in the Fediverse, nor is it the most powerful piece of server software in the Fediverse.
For starters, there is also after its . It's from late 2021, and it's a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork) of a fork of Friendica.
It's more advanced than Friendica, it offers more control over permissions than Friendica, but it doesn't quite offer Friendica's connection options (no diaspora*, no OStatus, no Bluesky, no Tumblr, no WordPress crossposter, no LiveJournal crossposter, no XMPP-compatible chat...), and it doesn't offer multiple profiles per channel. But it does offer , and it offers .
Like Friendica, it offers groups at various levels of public vs private. The permissions system makes it possible to appoint additional admins as moderators for groups.
Its learning curve is another bit steeper than Friendica's, and Friendica's learning curve is already steeper than Mastodon's.
Don't go looking for instance lists. (streams) is intentionally kept away from instance list sites, and it intentionally doesn't send any statistics either. There are currently only two public, open-registration instances: in the USA and in Hungary with a German admin who also speaks English.
Also, there are no phone apps for (streams), and it doesn't work with Mastodon apps. Your only options are the Web interface in a browser of the Web interface as a progressive Web app.
And the absolute feature monster in the Fediverse is
from 2015 which emerged from a Friendica fork from 2012. It offers some of Friendica's connection options, but everything that isn't Hubzilla's own Zot6, even ActivityPub, is optional and off by default for new channels.
Hubzilla is where .Like (streams) which is a Hubzilla descendant, Hubzilla offers multiple channels (identities) per account and nomadic identity (Hubzilla actually introduced nomadic identity), but it also offers multiple profiles (views of your identity) per channel like Friendica offers multiple profiles per account.
Hubzilla offers forums similar to the groups on (streams) with similar privacy and moderation options.
Hubzilla is actually more of a "decentralised social CMS" than a purist social networking application. It offers a whole lot of optional features which Friendica and (streams) don't have such as articles (an alternative way for blog posts that doesn't federate through the Fediverse), wikis and webpages. In fact, is built on a Hubzilla channel.
However, Hubzilla's learning curve is even steeper than (streams)'. And, again, don't ask for a phone app. There's only the browser and installing it as a PWA.
Public, open-registration Hubzilla hubs can be looked up on all known instance lists.
: Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) also offer a standards-compatible event calendar. At least Hubzilla and (streams) even offer the option to let other Hubzilla and (streams) channels administer your channel. This means you can create a channel only for a collaborative event calendar, connect it to certain trustworthy Hubzilla/(streams) users and give them administration permission on the calendar channel. This makes it possible for them to edit all calendars on the channel.
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(streams) That's doable.
- Create a Friendica account if you don't have one. Friendica can connect to itself, to Mastodon, to Pixelfed, to everything else that uses ActivityPub and to diaspora*. And it can integrate a Bluesky account for bidirectional federation without needing a bridge.
- Whomever you follow on Mastodon now, follow all of them from Friendica.
- Whomever you're connected to on diaspora* now, connect to all of them from Friendica.
- Register a Bluesky account if you don't have one. No, sorry, you'll need one if you don't want to use the Bridgy Fed bridge.
- Integrate your Bluesky account into your Friendica account.
- If you have an Android phone, install RaccoonForFriendica or Friendiqa or DiCa on it and connect your Friendica account to it.
This gives you a timeline that's unified not in your app, but on the server side already. And you don't cross-post to Friendica, Mastodon, everything else that uses ActivityPub, diaspora* and Bluesky, but you send one and the same post to Friendica, Mastodon, diaspora* and Bluesky, and you get one and the same comment thread from everywhere instead of four separate comment threads.
Potential downsides:
- You will have to set all of this up on Friendica's Web interface in a browser. Sorry if you're only ever on a phone.
- I don't know how many and which Friendica nodes are defederated by Threads. It's likely that Friendica nodes don't comply with Meta's federation requirements.
- There is no stable-release iOS app for Friendica. If you have an iPhone, you'll have to make do with an app made for Mastodon which only supports 10-20% of Friendica's features.
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Bluesky Dies ist mglicherweise der Grund warum mastodon nutzende
nicht so oft interagieren.
Vor allem liegt das aber auch an Mastodons Timeline. Da wird neuer Content einfach oben angefgt. Und jede neue Antwort ist ein neuer Beitrag, der oben angefgt wird. Was davon Mastodon-Nutzer lesen, hngt davon ab, wieviel Zeit und Bock sie haben, nach unten zu scrollen.
Wenn sie jetzt ein paar hundert Leuten folgen, die auch mal alle zwei Minuten was boosten, schaffen sie hchstens das, was ber ein, zwei Stunden in ihre Timeline gekommen ist. Weiter runter scrollen sie ganz einfach nicht. Und wenn sie nur einmal am Tag auf ihre Timeline gucken, verpassen sie jeden Tag mindestens 22 Stunden an Ereignissen.
Das geht im Fediverse aber auch ganz anders: Friendica, das ja aktuell hoch gehandelt wird als Facebook-Alternative, und seine "noch lebenden Nachfahren" Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte haben einen Zhler fr Ereignisse, auf die man noch nicht geachtet hat. Wenn man den aufklappt, erhlt man eine Liste all dieser Ereignisse. Nicht die Ereignisse selbst, sondern nur eine Liste.
Klickt man eins davon an, wird der komplette Thread zu diesem Ereignis geladen und (standardmig) alles an ungesehenen Ereignissen in diesem Thread als gesehen markiert. Wenn z. B. ein neuer Post reingekommen ist, dazu 20 Kommentare (Antworten), 15 Likes (Faves) und 15 Wiederholungen (Boosts), dann markiert man auf einen Satz 51 Ereignisse als gesehen.
Und so kann man Stck fr Stck das Ungelesene lesen, ohne irgendwas zu verpassen, und damit interagieren und darauf reagieren, wenn man will. Eigentlich ideal fr die FOMO-Fraktion. Zur Not kann man immer noch alles mit einem Klick als gelesen markieren.
Wenn das irgendwann zuviel wird, fngt man von ganz alleine an zu kuratieren, also Nutzern zu entfolgen, ihnen die Berechtigungen zum Schicken von Posts zu entziehen, Wiederholungen/Boosts zu blockieren, Inhalte zu filtern usw. Derweil merken Mastodon-Nutzer nicht mal, da sie eigentlich schon viel zuviel Content in ihre Timeline bekommen.
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FOMOThese will be some busy days for
Juno Rowland and me in OpenSim...
Right now, the is visiting us at in . About two dozen avatars on a packed standard region of 256x256m. In fact, some have crossed into neighbouring sims, probably without even noticing. It doesn't help that it's night during the whole hour of their visit.
Right afterwards, we're off to the on-going weekly party over on .
In fact, today is the official 15th anniversary of Dorenas World. It's the only German grid that has ever managed to live for this long, and it's the third-oldest surviving OpenSim grid now. Only , the first public grid from 2007, and are older.
The anniversary will be celebrated from tomorrow on until Sunday. I'll post the schedule later. Just so much: We've finally managed to get to perform here.
And next week, on January 25th, Dereos will celebrate its 10th anniversary on a sim built for the occasion..
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Dereos I myself would say that (streams) is stable enough to give it a try. Especially if you want to start a
public instance, for we've only got two public, open-registration instances on (streams) now. But even if you want to go solo, you may want to give it a try, although single-user (streams) instances are only half the fun.
I've heard of a few guys who are already giving Forte a try or want to. But it's still too experimental to rely on it as a daily driver, I guess, also because that might overload Mike with bug reports which he'll have to fix quickly because people rely on it. I wouldn't daily-drive Forte until Mike says it's safe.
Only if you need Hubzilla's extra features (articles, cards, wikis, webpages...), it makes sense to install Hubzilla.
The support groups would be
Hubzilla Support Forum and
Streams, respectively.
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Forte Doesn't seem like there's any active developers either.
Um, . It is very much still under development, and it has multiple active main developers, especially .
Oh, and
Mike Macgirvin isn't the Hubzilla main dev anymore either. In 2018, he has passed Hubzilla on to the community in the shape of
Mario Vavti and
Harald Eilertsen to concentrate on the advancement of Zot. He launched Osada (2018), Zap (2018), another Osada (2019),
yet another Osada (2020), a new Mistpark (2020 that's Friendica's old name), a new Redmatrix (2020 that's Hubzilla's old name) and Roadhouse (early 2021).
His current works are and .
Mike is working on both almost all alone and entirely in his spare time. He has officially "retired" from software development effective September 1st, 2024, so he has more important things to do in his spare time like tend to his land in Australia. You can't expect something from him that looks like several million dollars have been spent by a Silicon Valley corporation on the UI design. Or from anyone in the Fediverse.
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Forte IMO a screen like this (where you end up when you try to join) is a dead end for 99% of users.
Again, IMO, the most important thing for Mastodon is having mastodon.social as the default way to join. Federation is important, but having an obvious choice of server is even more important, if the goal is growth.
Well, Friendica's goal is not growth, growth and more growth at all costs. Neither is it the goal of Friendica's descendants from the same developer, at least the last two of which can serve as Facebook replacements just as well: Hubzilla, (streams), Forte. Neither is it the goal of the Fediverse as a whole.
Also, Friendica is decidedly and intentionally against instances that grow too big. It doesn't want to concentrate the vast majority of users on one node.
All Facebook replacements in the Fediverse intentionally wear decentralisation on their lapels because it's part of their concept and identity. None of them will ever put newbie convenience before everything else, pretend to newbies to be a centralised, monolithic silo website and leave its users some two to six months to accidentally find out that, oh, by the way, it's decentralised.
So "user name, password, there you go" is not going to happen here.
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Forte If your admin has the money for an API license, you can integrate an account into a Friendica account or a Hubzilla channel, just like you can integrate a Bluesky account into a Friendica account (yes, you can do that without a bridge), and just like you can integrate a Tumblr account into both.
The technology is still there and has been since long before Mastodon was made. Oh, and in case you don't know, both Friendica and Hubzilla are part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon (Hubzilla only optionally, but still, I'm posting this from Hubzilla right now).
The only reason why both Friendica and Hubzilla are factually disconnected from is because none of their admins (probably) can and want to pay for an API license. But, again, the technology is still there in both cases and installed on all Friendica nodes and Hubzilla hubs. It's just deactivated.
CC:
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Hubzilla That's probably because they're all being railroaded to pixelfed.social, and they think Pixelfed is a centralised silo because nobody tells them about decentralisation and the Fediverse. What we know as the Fediverse is only one website to them.
For a stark contrast, look at all those who are on Mastodon, and who try to relocate from Facebook to Friendica. These people actually haven't really arrived in the Fediverse yet. Otherwise they'd know that they can follow those of their friends who move from Facebook to Friendica (or elsewhere) from Mastodon, and they don't need a Friendica account just to be able to follow Friendica accounts.
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Fediverse The main (stable) equivalents in the Fediverse to Facebook (albeit not even close to outright clones, but better) are, in chronological order of creation:
- ()
The only one with , although iOS is only covered by an early beta app. Some learning curve. - ()
The most powerful one. The steepest learning curve of the three. - ()
The most advanced one and still quite powerful. A bit steeper learning curve. Intentionally absent from instance lists (ask me for recommendations).
All three were created by the same guy who still occasionally maintains (streams) as well as something even newer which is still experimental.
and are rather more powerful replacements for Twitter/.
Since you were probably unaware of this: All of these as well as Mastodon, Pixelfed and in are connected to one another via a protocol called ActivityPub. This means that you can follow Friendica or Pixelfed users from Mastodon. In fact, I'm writing this to you from Hubzilla right now, and you can read it on Mastodon. That is, Hubzilla is a special case: ActivityPub support is available, but optional and off by default for new users.
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(streams) - Move everyone to somewhere in the Fediverse and set up a public group/forum on Friendica, Hubzilla or (streams).
- Move everyone to Friendica, Hubzilla or (streams) and set up a private group/forum on Friendica, Hubzilla or (streams).
This is the closest to Facebook you can get. - Move everyone to the Threadiverse (Lemmy, Mbin, PieFed) and set up a public Lemmy community, Mbin magazine or PieFed community.
This is more like Reddit.
A Friendica group, a Hubzilla forum or a (streams) group can also include an event calendar. But hardly any places in the Fediverse other than Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) support events Mastodon doesn't.
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PieFed Ja, das ist deren Ernst. Auf Friendica sind Gruppen keine gesonderte Funktion, sondern spezielle Nutzerkonten, und zwar schon seit fast 15 Jahren.
Und das werden die Entwickler bestimmt nicht jetzt umbauen, nur weil einige Leute einen Facebook-Klon erwarten.
Wenn du keinen Bock auf Aus- und Einloggen hast, nimm lieber Hubzilla oder (streams), beide vom Friendica-Entwickler. Da sind Gruppen/Foren auch Kanle mit spezieller Einstellung, aber man kann mehrere Kanle auf einem Konto haben und zwischen denen hin- und herschalten, ohne sich aus- und wieder einloggen zu mssen.
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FriendicaTwo things are becoming glaringly obvious currently.
One, it seems like aspiring Facebook escapees want and expect Facebook as it was in December, 2024, in the Fediverse. Maybe also because that's what they're told Friendica is. Just like Twitter escapees have been wanting and expecting Mastodon (and the Fediverse as a whole) to be literally Twitter without Musk, but otherwise absolutely identical to Twitter. Because that's what they were told.
People don't want something that's better than the original. Because that's different from the original. People want 1:1 clones of the original.
Two, lots of Mastodon users, even many of those who have been around since the second Twitter migration wave of late 2022 (as in over two years)k, haven't understood the Fediverse yet. They think their Mastodon account can only connect to Mastodon accounts, and a Friendica account can only connect to Friendica accounts, and so they need a Friendica account in parallel to their Mastodon account in order to be able to stay in contact with both new Friendica users and current Mastodon users.
Little do they probably know that they already follow users of Friendica, Hubzilla, Misskey, Sharkey, Iceshrimp, Akkoma, Mbin etc. on their Mastodon accounts because Mastodon doesn't tell them. Even less do they know that Friendica is the federation world champion. Not only does it connect to everything in the ActivityPub-using Fediverse, including Mastodon, but it also has more non-ActivityPub connection options than anything else.
Not so obvious yet: If a significant number of Facebook users does end up on Friendica, we'll have a wonderful clash of cultures in the Fediverse.
- Faction #1: almost three years worth of Twitter refugees on Mastodon who still want to force Mastodon's culture upon the whole Fediverse. Including Friendica.
- Faction #2: fresh arrivals on Mastodon from Twitter who want to keep living their Twitter culture, and who don't even expect Mastodon to have its own culture.
- Faction #3: fresh arrivals on Friendica from Facebook who want to keep living their Facebook culture, and who also end up angering faction #1 with "long posts" (anything with over 500 characters).
- Faction #4: the old Fediverse guard, especially on Friendica where some users have been since years before Mastodon has even been created, who are being lectured by faction #1 and accused of harassment by factions #2 and #3.
Beware if faction #3 discovers Lemmy communities and starts joining them. For Lemmy's culture is almost identical to Reddit's culture, whether #1 wants or not.
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FediverseCulture That's because Friendica is social
networking. Just like Facebook was social
networking in 2010 when Friendica was made.
Social
media is about pumping out content. Just like Twitter and 2025's Facebook where you've got a full feed of stuff dealt to you by a secret-sauce algorithm without doing anything but joining.
Social
networking is about connecting with people. 2010's Facebook didn't have an algorithm that automatically "friended" you with people. You had to do it yourself to have something happening in your feed.
So stop using it like Twitter, and start using it like Facebook was originally meant to be used. The burger menu should have something like Connections or, better yet, Directory. From there you should get to connection suggestions. I'd say they're even closer to what you're looking for if you fill out your profile first.
If you yourself are looking for connections, there's the Friendica Directory with , etc.
Lastly, Friendica isn't a "decentralised walled garden" that can only connect within. Friendica can connect to everything within the Fediverse, including Mastodon.
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Friendica The closest there is would be the Threadiverse: Lemmy, Mbin, PieFed. Technically all Reddit replacements. The latter two are probably even more appropriate because they've got somewhat better support for Fediverse software that isn't a Reddit clone.
You can join a Lemmy community, an Mbin magazine or a PieFed community with a Mastodon account by following it. Starting new threads is not "Mastodon 101" straight-forward because you have to take a few things into consideration (Mastodon has no real support for groups, that's why), but it's possible. And if you go over to Lemmy or Mbin or PieFed, all you see is groups, only groups and nothing but groups.
What you cannot do, however, is log onto a Lemmy, Mbin or PieFed instance with your Mastodon account and get your own personal, customisable feed. This is generally not how the Fediverse works. The only non-Mastodon place where you can "log in" with your Mastodon credentials and have a local user account automagically created with the self-same login credentials is Pixelfed.
Also, especially Lemmy is populated by 99% former Redditors. They haven't adopted Mastodon's culture just because they're in the Fediverse. Most of them barely know that Mastodon exists. Instead, Lemmy has Reddit's culture all over. Prepare for culture clashes with Mastodon users on the losing side because all mods are formerly from Reddit, too.
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PieFed Aber es kann halt eben jetzt nicht zur unserer"Kultur"gehren, die Leute in dieser Ungewissheit zu lassen - vielmehr wollen wir sie untersttzen.
Wenn du Neulinge verhtscheln und sie im Glauben lassen willst, das Fediverse sei ein einziger Twitter-Klon namens Mastodon, dann reicht es nicht, ihnen nicht die Wahrheit zu sagen. Du wirst die Wahrheit regelrecht von ihnen abschirmen mssen. Ich glaube, wir wissen alle, wie groe Erfolgschancen das hat.
Vor allem: Je lnger sie sich an ein Fediverse gewhnen, das nur Mastodon und nur ein Twitter-Klon ist, um so schlimmer wird es fr sie, wenn sie die Wahrheit erfahren.
CC:
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NichtNurMastodon No need to create them. The Fediverse has multiple all-out, full-blown Facebook alternatives readily available already now. Not Facebook
clones, but better than Facebook with features that you won't find on Facebook.
And yes, including groups on various levels of public vs private where public groups are open to the whole Fediverse including Mastodon.
- ()
Established in 2010, five and a half years before Mastodon
Federated with Mastodon since Mastodon's creation - ()
Established in 2015, ten months before Mastodon
Optionally federated with Mastodon since Mastodon's creation - ()
Established in 2021
Federated with Mastodon since its own creation
And if you're daring enough to try something experimental:
- Forte ()
Established in 2024
Federated with Mastodon since its own creation
All four were created by the same guy,
Mike Macgirvin , professional software developer of about half a century, creator of multiple Fediverse protocols and almost a dozen Facebook alternatives in the Fediverse and inventor of .
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