Russia says U.S. missile decision could
That said, you can't point fingers and put the blame on non-Mastodon server applications because they don't work exactly like Mastodon.
They've got different premises. Friendica was designed to be an alternative to Facebook, and it pre-dates Mastodon by five and a half years. Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte are in the same family of forks by the same creator with more or less the same premise. Socialhome is another Facebook alternative, and the fact that it can federate with diaspora*, just like Friendica and Hubzilla, goes to show how old it is. It should be clear that neither of the five is an add-on to Mastodon.
Nobody can demand from them to throw their entire conversation support overboard and become more like Mastodon, just because Mastodon is the biggest Fediverse project, and to more people than not, Mastodon is the Fediverse. That is, people can try, but they can't expect this to happen.
It's even less likely to happen than Friendica throwing its old native culture, geared towards its feature set and its conversation support, out of the window and completely replace it with Mastodon's culture which is largely incompatible with Friendica's technology.
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As far as contact discovery goes, that point goes to the actual social networking server apps in the Fediverse, the Facebook alternatives, rather than the microblogging server apps that are being misused as social networks. I think doesn't suggest potential new contacts to you, and Mastodon definitely doesn't. But Facebook does, and so do Friendica and the rest of its family (Hubzilla, (streams), Forte). (streams) could be the king of this because it can find both all kinds of ActivityPub actors (unlike Hubzilla) and actors using the nomadic protocols on which Hubzilla and (streams) itself are based (unlike Friendica), if only it had more and especially larger public instances.
By the way, only a week ago, I wrote .
Also, all four are better equipped for finding your own kind of people. You don't need instances for specific target audiences which newbies will almost never hear of. You don't have to fumble around with hashtags, not even knowing what the "right" hashtag for a certain topic is.
That's because all four have native built-in support for discussion groups. Pretty much all the Fediverse can connect to these groups, but it's here where these groups are at home, and Mastodon doesn't even understand the concept of groups. Not to mention that, unlike Guppe groups, these groups can be moderated. And at least on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, they can be fully private so that non-members can't look inside and even hidden from public directories.
As far as moderation goes, especially Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte are geared towards self-moderation. They have extensive permissions systems on three levels (per channel, per contact, per post). In combination with their understanding and system of conversations (which Mastodon completely lacks as well), you can moderate your own threads and even delete offending comments. Unfortunately, you can't have them purged from the whole Fediverse.
Also, the reliance on self-moderation means that neither of the three has a Report button or even only a report system built in, so they don't understand Mastodon's report system either. If you need to report something to one of the instance admins, you'll have to send them a DM. Most public Hubzilla hubs only reveal who the admins are in the JSON-formatted siteinfo. On (streams) and Forte, you'll have to go to the directory, have only local channels shown, sort them by age and guess which of the oldest actually local channels are admins.
That said, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte have much more radical methods at hand for keeping unwanted stuff out than Mastodon. Most Fediverse server applications allow for admins to block entire instances, many, (streams) and Forte included, even give users this power. But (streams) and Forte have received a new feature called "user agent filter" in September which is capable of blocking entire Fediverse projects on a per-instance level. It was mainly designed as a more advanced counter-measure against Threads, but it can just as well be used to lock out the entirety of Mastodon, Glitch included, or the entirety of Pleroma, for example. It can even operate on an allowlist which, in addition to (streams)/Forte's own instances, only allows certain other server apps.
And since Hubzilla and (streams) both aren't based on ActivityPub, and ActivityPub is optional on both, they can theoretically completely raise the drawbridge and cut everything based on ActivityPub off in one fell swoop. In this case, they can only interact with each other, and Hubzilla can also optionally interact with diaspora* and Friendica via the diaspora* protocol. In fact, I know one (streams) group where ActivityPub was deactivated with the very intention to keep Mastodon out.
The main issue of all four has to be UX. None of the four has an official iOS and/or Android app. Friendica is from 2010 and designed for standard desktop browsers, and the others are the only survivors of a long family of forks. They can all be set up as progressive Web apps, but nobody knows what that even is, much less how to do that. Also, people need something with the same name as the server application that they can install from the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store.
Friendica is the only one of the four with third-party apps with a native mobile UI. Even then, there's exactly one app readily available in the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store, RaccoonForFriendica, and it's so brand-new that it has only just had its first "stable" release (version 0.1.0). All that Hubzilla has is Nomad, an app only available on F-Droid that's a specialised browser for the Web interface, and that has last seen a new version almost five years ago. (streams) has nothing, Forte even less because it's so new and bleeding-edge that it currently has exactly one private instance with exactly one user.
Truth be told, a mobile app with a fully native mobile UI for (streams) and Forte would be so deep that it'd rival K-9 Mail in complexity, and such an app for Hubzilla would be even more complex.
Friendica supports the Mastodon client API, but no app out there that can be used with Friendica covers more than a small subset of Friendica's features. Basically, unless it's Fedilab, you're forced to use Friendica like Mastodon. In this regard, it'd be completely foolish to add the Mastodon client API to Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte. It wouldn't happen anyway because the devs refuse to have too much proprietary, non-standard Mastodon technology on board.
One could say that the UX is a general issue. This is partially because, again, Friendica was geared towards the desktop almost one and a half decades ago with a Web UI designed by a protocol developer. At least, its UI has taken some cues from Misskey apparently.
Hubzilla's only remaining theme was dolled up this year with more colour configuration options, but otherwise, its only available theme and therefore its entire UX is stuck in 2012 when it was still named Red. New third-party themes are still in development. And while (streams) got a brand-new, fresh theme (appropriately named Fresh) which Forte inherited, it isn't modelled in the style of a 2024 mobile app either.
It certainly doesn't help that Friendica is a very complex piece of software. Forte is more complex. (streams) is another bit more complex. and Hubzilla is the most complex one of the four by far and, while technologically still more advanced than most of the Fediverse, stuck in 2012 in other UX-related things. In addition, Hubzilla is the only one of the four where you have to turn ActivityPub support on, and finding that "switch" is anything but straight-forward.
What doesn't help either is people's expectations. I'd say that people escaping from Facebook might get used to Friendica without too many problems, probably more easily than Mastodon which works entirely differently.
But what most people coming to the Fediverse are looking for is Twitter. Or something as close to Twitter as possible. You see it in the many Mastodonians who keep using Mastodon like Twitter.
Bluesky is an all-out, 1:1 clone of Twitter from about ten years ago, all the way to appearing to be (and actually mostly being) a centralised, monolithic silo just like Twitter.
Mastodon already repels people escaping from by both not really looking and feeling like Twitter and the prospect of having to choose an instance (which is FUD because the official app railroads newbies to mastodon.social). The millions who joined two years ago only joined because the vast majority of them were basically "told" that Mastodon, and therefore the Fediverse, is only one website: mastodon.social. Or mas.to. Or mstdn.social. You get the point, I guess.
Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte aren't Twitter clones. They don't aim to be just like Twitter with all its shortcomings included. They aim to be sort of like Facebook, but better, with extra features and with Facebook's shortcomings removed. Facebook looks, feels and works nothing like . It never has. And so, these four are about as far away from being anything like as they could possibly be. And that's by design.
But it isn't user-friendly to those who are looking for the closest thing to the official mobile app.
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In other words, a centralised, monolithic, walled-up silo for total dumb-dumbs with Twitter's UI and Twitter's UX. An even closer Twitter clone than Bluesky.
And if it can't be centralised and monolithic and walled-up because it's a) decentralised itself and b) in the Fediverse, it must still present itself to the general public and everyone on as centralised, monolithic and walled-up. That's all they can handle. It even has to lie to the users on its own lighthouse instance to keep them on board.
.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Twitter # #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse
Im Grunde ist es so einfach, wie Hubzilla eben ist. Wenn du Hubzilla zum Bloggen nehmen willst, ist das ein Kanal wie jeder andere auch, nur da du ihn eben als Blog fhrst. Da sind deine Posts dann Blogposts. Und neben dem ganzen Fediverse (unter den Apps ActivityPub nicht vergessen zu aktivieren) kann man dir auch per Atom-Feed (mit oder ohne Kommentare, wie es sich gehrt) und optional auch auf diaspora* (mu auch erst aktiviert werden) folgen.
Und sollte dir Mastodon mal auf den Keks gehen, kannst du unter deinem Hubzilla-Account einen zweiten Kanal fr dein Social Networking anlegen und zwischen dem und deinem Blog einfach hin- und herschalten.
Du kannst ja mit Hubzilla alles Mgliche und Unmgliche machen. Einfach mal Der Pepe (Hubzilla) folgen, der wirbt gerne dafr und schreibt gerade die Dokumentation neu. Der ist auch von ihm.
ffentliche, offene Hubzilla-Hubs gibt's einige, gerade in Deutschland, zumal Hubzilla von Deutschland aus maintaint wird. Ich bin selbst auf den beiden grten Hubs Netzgemeinde updatet schnell auf neue Versionen und hat den Chefentwickler als Co-Admin.
Wenn dir weder Friendica noch Hubzilla vertraut sind, solltest du eh auf einem ffentlichen Hub anfangen. Umziehen kannst du immer noch, gibt ja nomadische Identitt.
Wenn du aber unbedingt deinen eigenen Hub aufziehen willst, frag mal , der baut an einem spezialisierten Blog-Theme, das ein bichen mehr in Richtung Medium, WriteFreely oder Plume geht. Vielleicht willst du das installieren, dann hat er ein Versuchskaninchen mehr.
Was es aus der Familie sonst noch gbe, so der Vollstndigkeit halber:
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Blog #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte Twitter support on Friendica and Hubzilla is technically still implemented, but factually ended when Twitter closed their API for third-party clients. That was when Musk was already at the helm.
Facebook support on Friendica must have started in late 2011 when Mike still maintained it, and it already ended in 2012, but that might have been when the community maintained Facebook.
By the way, diaspora* support came to Friendica in mid-2011 after about half a year of work, including a lot of reverse-engineering. Hubzilla, being a Friendica fork, has had it since it was launched.
OStatus support was removed from Hubzilla with version 6. I'd have to look up when it came out. Whether Friendica still supports it, no idea.
The uafilter was introduced to (streams) and Forte in September, 2024.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #StatusNet #diaspora* #Tumblr #Twitter #Facebook #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte The creations of one Mike Macgirvin (all of which were or still are in the Fediverse and connected to Mastodon, by the way) made all of this possible in some way.
Friendica was created in 2010 with connecting to everything and then some as a goal. It connects to the entire Fediverse, to diaspora*, to Tumblr, to Bluesky (without the Bridgy Fed bridge), even to e-mail, it can subscribe to RSS and Atom feeds while generating an Atom feed itself, and it used to connect to the OStatus protocol of StatusNet and GNU social, until fairly recently to Twitter and, for a while in the early 2010s, even to Facebook. I'm not kidding, really not. I was there myself.
Granted, the connections to Bluesky, Tumblr, Twitter and Facebook don't/didn't work like those to diaspora*, StatusNet and the ActivityPub-based Fediverse when Friendica still had its own protocol. You still need(ed) an account on the other side, but you integrate(d) that account into your Friendica account, and you post(ed) to your connections on Bluesky and Tumblr and Twitter and Mastodon just like to all your other connections.
However, especially Twitter and Facebook didn't want that. Twitter kept changing their API with no prior announcement, not only to keep third-party clients out, but probably also to keep Friendica and later Hubzilla out, at least for a while.
And Facebook changed its rules for developers (as a Friendica node admin, you needed to be registered as a dev on Facebook to be able to connect the Facebook add-on on your node to Facebook): Sending data to Facebook was still allowed, but extracting data was forbidden from then on. This made the whole Facebook add-on useless.
The only Fediverse server apps that really have something like this implemented are by Mike Macgirvin, too: (streams) from 2021 and Forte from August (he is currently the only user of the latter). They have a per-instance "user agent filter" that can operate either in a blocklist mode which keeps certain user agents out or in an allowlist mode which only lets certain user agents in. This filter is designed to also let through/keep out certain Fediverse server applications, including but not limited to Threads.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #StatusNet #diaspora* #Tumblr #Twitter #Facebook #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte That's why my image descriptions for my original images are so extensive: so that people learn what they need to know about the obscure virtual worlds my images are from to understand the images.
If they have the patience to read through one massive alt-text and, in addition, one frequently absolutely gargantuan long image description in the post, that is. (No character limit here.)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #VirtualWorlds #Metaverse #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta Four points:
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta -exposure
Yup. For many fully sighted people, image-describing AI is a nicely convenient fire-and-forget alt-text generator. They've never seen any of their own alt-texts, much less edited any of them.
Threads uses the exact same image-describing AI as Facebook. It's infamous for how bad it is. I mean, there'll never be an AI that lives up to my standards, but seriously, Meta's AI is horrible.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Meta #Threads #Facebook #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta Add your location to a Google Map (streams) and probably also Forte already offer two features in this direction.
One, they can import contact lists from ActivityPub or CSV files. Okay, that still requires the handling of files, knowledge where they are on your device and knowledge what files are in the first place. But you can connect to up to 1,000 actors in one fell swoop, provided you're willing to manage that many contacts.
Two, and this is for those who want to pick people or things to follow one by one: built-in connection discovery and connection suggestions la Facebook. A feature as old as Friendica, and Friendica is the oldest surviving Fediverse project, pre-dating Mastodon by five and a half years.
On your stream page which is hard-coded as your landing page, you have an area with two randomly changing connection suggestions on the left. It includes a link to a whole page dedicated to suggestions. On your connections page (which, unlike on Mastodon, is not buried in the settings it can actually be added to the navigation bar if you so desire so you can get there with one click), there's the same suggestion area. Right below it, there's a small area for searching for contacts which has another link to the suggestions page.
The suggestions page is actually only the directory of almost all Fediverse actors known to that server instance, but filtered for what may be interesting for you according to your profile. Of course, the results improve when you actually fill out your profile some, especially the keywords field. Each suggestion is presented with their various profile fields (if they've given permission to see their profile), numbers of followers and followed for ActivityPub actors (even though (streams) and Forte themselves don't distinguish between them), a handy big green button for connecting and a similarly big yellow button for removing that actor from the suggestions. Not just like on Facebook, but better than Facebook. This is what you may wish dating portals were like.
If the suggestions aren't sufficient, you may also peruse the whole directory. It contains all Fediverse actors known to that (streams) instance. My two (streams) channels are on an instance with only 13 channels altogether, but it still knows lots of actors from all over the Fediverse. The directory looks largely the same as when acting as a suggestions list, only without the Ignore button. You still get complete profile previews and, for ActivityPub actors, follower/followed counts.
The directory can be filtered by keyword, either by search field or by tag cloud. In addition, it can show
Again, it's impressive how much a (streams) instance with only 13 channels knows. A much bigger and much more diverse instance would also have a vastly bigger directory.
This, by the way, is also why topic-specialised or community-specialised instances make even more sense on (streams) and Forte than on Mastodon. For one, there's more interesting stuff and less uninteresting clutter in the directory. Besides, this goes doubly for the directory in local mode. Lastly, nomadic identity allows you to have the same channel on multiple instances anyway.
Granted, this is not as easy and convenient as following several dozen gamers or Linux users or climate activists with two clicks. But it goes well beyond what Mastodon offers already now.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Onboarding #StarterPacks #Streams #(streams) #Forte Und wenn man ihnen widerspricht, schreien sie "Reply Guying" und blockieren einen.
Nicht etwa, weil man eine Wahrheit ausgesprochen hat, die ihnen unbequem ist (wie bei all den Leuten, die unbedingt wollen, da das Fediverse nur Mastodon ist). Sondern weil man ihnen mit etwas widersprochen hat, das leider nicht offensichtlichermaen Unfug ist, sondern aussehen knnte, als htte es Hand und Fu.
Da behauptest du zwei Jahre lang steif und fest, das Fediverse ist nur Mastodon. Dann kommt einer von Firefish oder Friendica oder Hubzilla und sagt dir, das Fediverse ist nicht nur Mastodon, und Mastodon ist noch mit ganz anderen Sachen verbunden. Du wrdest das gerne als Schwachsinn abtun, um deinen eigenen Hintern zu retten. Ist nur eben bld, da der Umstand, da dir gerade einer geantwortet hat, der selber nicht auf Mastodon ist, direktweg der Gegenbeweis fr deine Behauptungen ist.
Aber genau deswegen sollte man solche Leute erst recht "reply-guyen" und "fedisplainen". Wer sich so auffhrt, hat das verdient. Leider werden sie das dann nur selber lesen und nicht ihre Followers, weil Mastodon keine Konversationen untersttzt.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #NichtNurMastodon #ReplyGuy #ReplyGuys #Fedisplaining
These people only learn about the existence of a Fediverse outside of Mastodon either from a post that does loads of things which are completely impossible on Mastodon or from a reply guy on Akkoma, Firefish, Friendica, Hubzilla etc.
At least this guy did not freak out when he learned about the existence of a Fediverse outside of Mastodon. That is, I don't know how he'll react once a very un-Mastodon post hits his timeline.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Akkoma #Firefish #Friendica #Hubzilla #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #ReplyGuy #Fedisplaining
I was tempted to jump in myself and correct that guy about the Fediverse allegedly only being Mastodon. But this has been taken care of.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #ReplyGuy #FedisplainingI've just come to the realisation that putting long descriptions into external documents in the file space of my Hubzilla channel and then linking to them is a dumb idea. It's especially so for the use-case for which it was considered for, and that's posts with multiple embedded images.
It's untested. It's experimental. It might not even work for all I know. It's inconvenient for mobile users because their browser will pop up when they tap the link to the long image description in their Mastodon apps. That is, if it works they way I intend it to work. Which, again, I'm not sure about.
But most of all, it creates too much redundancy.
If I put all my long image descriptions into separate documents, then everything that's in all images likewise will have to be described in all its details once for each image. And all explanations that usually come with my long image descriptions will have to be there once for each image. If I have four images, I need four times the same explanation of way over 1,000 characters where the images were made even though they were all made in the very same place.
That's because I can't expect everyone to open and read all long descriptions. In fact, I can't count on everyone opening and reading the first long description. Thus, I can't explain everything only in the first long description. If someone only opens the second or third or fourth long description, they'll be missing a whole lot of explanation because it's only in the first description.
Sure, I could tell people where the explanations are. But that'd mean that the alt-text for the fourth image would tell them about the long description for the fourth image, but the long description for the fourth image would be very incomplete and refer people to the long descriptions of the first three images. Having to read five descriptions in five separate places in two apps for one image is even more cumbersome than having to read two descriptions in two different places in two apps for one image.
On the other hand, if I put all my long image descriptions into the post itself like I've always done since I've started taking image descriptions seriously, they wouldn't be right below the images proper in a post with multiple images embedded in-between text. But they'd be in the very same place as the images.
More importantly, they'd all be in the same place, full stop. I could do as I've always done recently. I could start with a common preamble for all four image descriptions in which I explain common stuff, and in which I even describe common stuff. And then I could let the specific descriptions for the individual images follow. Each bit of information would be there only once in one place and not four times over in four separate places.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta If they notice.
Thing is: If someone on Pleroma, Akkoma, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte quote-posts someone else, that someone else is notified as if they've been mentioned. If they're notified when they're mentioned by a non-contact out of the blue, that is. Mods might not notice.
If someone on Misskey or any of its various still active forks and fork-forks quote-posts someone else, that someone else is not notified, and neither are any mods unless they happen upon the quote-post.
Also, nobody and nothing on Mastodon can prevent anybody outside of Mastodon from quote-posting anyone on Mastodon. And there's a whole lot outside of Mastodon that can and will always be able to quote-post Mastodon toots with zero resistance. See my start post in this thread for 18 server apps that can do that.
However, this much should be said: Friendica has had quote-posts for over 14 years. Hubzilla has had quote-posts for, technically speaking, almost 13 years. And never in all these years have quote-posts been used on either to harass anyone on Friendica, on Hubzilla, on Mastodon or elsewhere.
Sounds hard to believe for people who only know Twitter and Mastodon, I know. But Friendica and Hubzilla aren't almost entirely populated by people who came from Twitter. They aren't Twitter alternatives anyway. Friendica is a Facebook alternative, and Hubzilla is a Facebook alternative on coke and steroids. Both have a totally, completely different culture from Twitter as well as from Mastodon, both early Mastodon and today's Mastodon. There is no influence from Twitter on them whatsoever.
In fact, until Hubzilla 9.0 which came out this year, Hubzilla did not even have repeats (= retweets = boosts). It had always used quote-posts (= shared posts in Hubzilla lingo) for this purpose.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate Scott M. Stolz
More specifically:
On Twitter/, hateful right-wing people harass members of marginalised minorities (BIPoC, 2SLGBTQIA+ etc.) by quote-tweeting one of their tweets, mocking them in the tweet that quote-tweets them and then having others mock them even more in the replies. This is so commonplace that it feels like the only use-case that quote-tweets still have on .
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Twitter # #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweetsTejan Ausland Yes, but many on Mastodon don't understand this.
For them, the Mastodon devs are the creators and keepers of the Fediverse itself as well as "the good guys" who have made the single most awesome piece of server software in decades. If the Mastodon devs even only imply that an opt-out or opt-in switch for quote-posts will bring absolute safety from being quote-posted, they take it at face value.
So when they opt out of being quote-posted, and someone from outside of Mastodon quote-posts them anyway, they won't blame it on the Mastodon devs having promised them something impossible. Never would the Mastodon devs do that.
Rather, the devs behind whatever that someone is using are the bad guys. They're rogues, they're evil hackers who have introduced quote-posts just to be able to spite and harass Mastodon users. Why else would something introduce quote-posts after all
The one thing that'll protect wherever that someone is from their wrath is that most of them won't be able to figure out what that someone is using. Just because Mastodon users can look up a post at its source, doesn't mean they know they can, much less they actually do.
So they may try to get allegedly rogue instances Fediblocked just because these instances are non-Mastodon instances doing what they regularly do. They may succeed because at least some blocklist maintainers don't have a clue about the Fediverse outside Mastodon, its capabilities and its culture either. But it's unlikely that they'll pinpoint this culprit having used Sharkey, have all of Sharkey Fediblocked for being able to "circumvent" Mastodon's quote-post opt-out/opt-in, then pinpoint that the next quote-poster is using Akkoma and have all of Akkoma Fediblocked and so forth.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Blocklist #Blocklists #BlocklistMeta #FediblockMetaBy the way, there's exactly one way of being safe from being quote-posted in the Fediverse:
Move to Hubzilla or (streams). Keep all optional communications protocols off, including ActivityPub. Disallow quoting and mirroring of your posts entirely in your channel role (on Hubzilla) or keep your channel type on Limited ((streams)). Make sure that none of your contact roles (Hubzilla) or permission roles ((streams)) allows it. Try to live with only contacts on Hubzilla and (streams) none of them would ever use quote-posts for nefarious reasons, but better safe than sorry. Always post to a restricted audience so that sharing your posts isn't possible anyway. And never comment on public posts so that sharing your comments isn't possible either.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebateOne of the worst aspects of Mastodon's plans to introduce quote-posts with a switch:
You keep having to tell Mastodon users that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon. That (insert a long list of Fediverse server applications here) have had quote-posts from the beginning. That they're all in the Fediverse. That they're all fully federated with Mastodon. That they can all quote-post any Mastodon toot they can possibly receive or import. And that they will be able to quote-post any Mastodon toot they can in the future, regardless of Mastodon account settings.
Up until this point, they were fully, firmly convinced that they're 100% safe from quote-posts on Mastodon. Either because they could not for the lives of them imagine that anything in the Fediverse has them. Or simply because they "knew" up until this point that the Fediverse is Mastodon. And if Mastodon introduces an opt-out or opt-in switch, this switch will mean absolute, 100% water-tight safety from quote-posts.
But for the Fediverse outside of Mastodon, the quote-post switch will be completely useless. Again: These lots of Fediverse server apps have had quote-posts before Mastodon introduced them. They had quote-posts before Mastodon invented the opt-in or opt-out switch. I mean, at least two of them have had quote-posts since before Mastodon even existed! So how are they supposed to support a proprietary, non-standard, Mastodon-specific switch which probably won't be documented anywhere before Mastodon rolls out quote-posts
I'll tell you what'll happen.
Mastodon users will deactivate quote-posts for their accounts or not activate them in the first place. Non-Mastodon users, not knowing about the status of that switch, will quote-post them regardless with zero resistance. Upon which these Mastodon users will shit brix. And they'll call for either blocking that obviously rogue Mastodon user instance-wide, or blocking that user's instance, or Fediblocking that user's instance.
At this point, someone else who is not on Mastodon either will chime in and tell them: That particular user is, in fact, not on Mastodon. The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. That user is on Friendica. No, Friendica is not a rogue Mastodon instance. Friendica is not Mastodon at all. No, Friendica isn't a Mastodon fork either. Friendica has nothing to do with Mastodon. In fact, Friendica is older than Mastodon. On Friendica, quote-posts are perfectly normal. Friendica has had quote-posts for longer than Mastodon has even existed. And so forth.
Cue the Mastodon user shitting brix again, foaming with anger and calling for a Fediblock of all of Friendica.
In fact, I'm pretty sure that if Mastodon's quote-post feature and the rest of the Fediverse disregarding it leads to more awareness of the non-Mastodon Fediverse and its non-Mastodon features on Mastodon, it will also lead to demands for being able to completely block everything that isn't Mastodon, either on an account level (and then on by default, of course) or on an instance level or both.
Oh, by the way: The ability to completely lock out entire Fediverse projects already exists in the Fediverse right now, too. It's exclusive to two other Fediverse server apps that aren't Mastodon, both of which introduced this feature in September.
Here's a probably incomplete list of still-active Fediverse server apps with quote-posts which, yes, can quote-post Mastodon toots right now and will be able to quote-post Mastodon toots regardless of opt-in or opt-out:
(Inb4 both Oliphant and The Bad Space trying hard to catch all instances of the server apps mentioned above to blocklist them all.)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Calckey #Firefish #Sharkey #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp.NET #CherryPick #Neko #Catodon #Meisskey #Tanukey #Metaskey #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Threads #BridgyFed #Bluesky #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #FediblockMeta #Oliphant #TheBadSpace Nur so als Hinweis:
Selbst wenn das nicht kommen sollte, heit das nicht, da das Fediverse keine Quote-Posts haben wird. Auch wenn Mastodon keine Quote-Posts hat, das Fediverse hat sie, und zwar schon seit Juli 2010, mehr als fnf Jahre lnger, als es Mastodon gibt.
Misskey und seine ganzen Forks und Forkforks (Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, Catodon, CherryPick, Neko, Meisskey, Tanukey, Metaskey etc. pp.) haben alle Quote-Posts und knnen auch weiterhin so ziemlich jeden Mastodon-Trt widerstandslos quote-posten.
Friendica, wo ist, Hubzilla, wo ich bin, (streams) und Forte haben auch alle Quote-Posts und knnen weiterhin so ziemlich jeden Mastodon-Trt widerstandslos quote-posten. Solange es Mastodon gibt, konnten Friendica und Hubzilla Mastodon-Trts quote-posten.
Bei Pleroma und Akkoma bin ich mir aktuell nicht sicher.
Sieh dich mal in diesem ganzen Thread um. Ich habe hier selbst schon zwei Kommentare gequotepostet, einen von Friendica, einen von Mastodon.
Aber: Zumindest Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte sind kulturell vllig anders als . Da werden Quote-Posts so verwendet, wie sie da auch genannt werden. Nmlich zum Teilen interessanter Posts.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #Drko #Drkos #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedPosts Kommt drauf an.
Misskey und seine Forks und Forkforks (Firefish, Sharkey, Iceshrimp, CherryPick, Catodon usw.) quote-posten mit einer Referenz zum Original in einer eigenen Zeile, z. B.
Friendica und seine Nachfahren (Hubzilla, (streams), Forte) quote-posten auf eine andere Art und Weise. Erst wird ein entsprechender Code generiert, z. B.
Wenn der Post dann abgeschickt wird, wird daraus eine dumme, unabhngige Kopie des Originalpost generiert, die aber oben drber den Originalautor mit Link zu dessen Konto/Kanal erwhnt und auch einen Link zum Originalpost hat. Der Originalautor wird wie bei einer Erwhnung benachrichtigt.
Ein Quote-Post von Hubzilla (da und auf den anderen drei redet man von "teilen", nicht von "quote-posten") sieht dann so aus:
Wenn ich es richtig verstanden habe, haben Quote Post auch keine Abhngikeit mehr von einander (Boost ist nur ein Link zum Originalpost, wenn ich als Autor diesen entferne, ist auch jeder Boost dazu Geschichte).
Quoteposte ich etwas von euch, gehrt dieser Inhalt quasi mir inkl. meinen Ergnzungen. Vergleichbar wie ein Screenshot eines Posts, den ich in einen neuen Beitrag von mir einfge.
Auf X wrde dieses Format hufig genutzt, um andere samt ihrer Inhalte runterzumachen. Selten zur konstruktiven Diskussion.
Ich hoffe mal, dass sich die Schaffenden bei Mastodon darber noch bewusst sind und eine Quote Variante liefern, die noch eine Verbindung zum Originalpost hat und sich somit weiter in der Kontrolle der zitierten Person befindet..
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #Drko #Drkos #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedPosts Also, let's not forget Threads' very strict rules for instances wanting to connect.
If Threads actually checked all connecting instances and not only those with at least 1,000 monthly active users (or so is my impression), it would block all public instances of at least Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte now and forever and many personal or otherwise restricted instances along with them.
For example, Threads absolutely requires a publicly-visible federated timeline. All three can theoretically have a so-called public stream it can be switched between local and federated, and its visibility can be configurated to e.g. fully public, only accessible to users who can be identified and recognised as logged in (for external users, this requires OpenWebAuth magic single sign-on) or only accessible to local users. But it's fully optional which means that it can be off entirely.
And in fact, the public stream is off by default. Not only that, but public hubs generally keep it off. Special-interest instances may turn it on for local users, and personal, single-user instances may make it public, but restrict it to local. But no halfway competent admin activates an unrestricted federated public stream.
That's because it's difficult to keep in check what happens on the public stream. No instance of any of these three has 24/7 moderation that can manually step in and remove content from the pubstream within minutes or even seconds. And in fact, all three encourage their users to moderate themselves and their own channels and streams and empower them by giving them many more tools for self-moderation than Mastodon. Thus, not even the biggest Hubzilla hubs have moderators.
But at the same time, the owner of the instance can be held legally accountable for what happens on the public stream because, from a legal point of view, it happens on their website. Let something illegal be sent to a channel on a hub, and the hub admin is in trouble.
The only safe way to prevent this trouble is by not having a freely-accessible federated public stream. The very same freely-accessible federated public stream that's an absolute requirement for being allowed to connect to Threads.
So in theory, Hubzilla, (streams) and fledgling Forte, which is only one single private instance with one user right now, should be blocked on Threads in their entirety, right
In practice, AFAIK, only the two biggest Hubzilla hubs, Netzgemeinde and hub.hubzilla.de, are blocked. They're the only ones with over 1,000 MAUs. All the other hubs get a free pass, and I've yet to see a single (streams) instance on Threads' blocklist.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Threads For various reasons.
First of all, the Fediverse handles this differently. There is where you can look for users with certain tags in their profiles. Mind you, this is not a search engine with an automated, Fediverse-wide scraper. But still, it has a lot of users listed in it. And it's software-agnostic.
Bluesky-style starter packs which let you follow 40 users with one click would not be software-agnostic. They would most likely work on Mastodon, only Mastodon and nothing but Mastodon. But I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to you after eight years: The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. You can't build such a feature in a way that it works with Mastodon just the same as with Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica, Hubzilla etc. And building yet another new Fediverse feature only for Mastodon discriminates against everything that isn't Mastodon.
Also, if Mastodon specifically wanted to become a good social network with good onboarding for newbies (which, by the way, it isn't), not only should it stop holding on to pre-Musk Twitter as a role model, but taking over stuff from other microblogging platforms won't cut it either.
The most obvious solution would be to , the Facebook alternative Friendica and its descendants Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. Act more like an actual social network. Act more like Facebook. And actively suggest new contacts to its users. Because that's what all good social networks out there have done.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Bluesky #Onboarding #SocialNetwork #SocialNetworkingI've published a new article, inspired by a discussion about Fediverse onboarding a few days ago.
tldr: It's foolish to expect Mastodon to be the perfect decentralised social networking and easy to get onto. For it has never been conceived and designed for social networking. It's closely modelled after pre-Musk Twitter which is only a microblogging platform and all about content rather than people, and thus, so is Mastodon. Good social networking with good onboarding, that'd be the Facebook alternatives: Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #SocialNetwork #SocialNetworking
Wenn ihr ber das Fediverse insgesamt redet, also das ganze Netzwerk, aber ihr nennt es "Mastodon", dann kann ich euch nicht ernstnehmen. Das zeigt, da ihr euch gar nicht bewut seid, da es ein Fediverse jenseits von Mastodon gibt. Das, oder ihr wollt, da das Fediverse nur Mastodon ist.
Wenn ihr die Formulierung "Mastodon und das Fediverse" nutzt, kann ich euch auch nicht ernstnehmen. Ganz offensichtlich wit ihr nicht nur nichts ber das Fediverse auerhalb von Mastodon, sondern alles, was nicht Mastodon ist, ist euch komplett piepschnurzegal.
Das Netzwerk heit "Fediverse", und es ist weit davon entfernt, nur Mastodon zu sein.
"Mastodon" sollte nur diesen einen bestimmten Teil des Fediverse bezeichnen im Unterschied zu z. B. Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica, Pixelfed, PeerTube, Funkwhale, Owncast und den ganzen Rest des Fediverse.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon
The Fediverse is way too diverse for that. It isn't just Mastodon and Mastodon add-ons.
On the one end of the Fediverse, there's Mastodon. On the other end, there are Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte which are very, very much not Mastodon. They work entirely differently from Mastodon. And that's actually good. The Hubzilla devs and the (streams) and Forte dev even mostly refuse to adopt non-standard Mastodon stuff, much less make them more like Mastodon in general.
So you have Fediverse devs who develop new stuff for the Fediverse, but they only build it to interact with Mastodon. And then they're completely confused if something comes along and tries to interact with what they develop, but it doesn't work as intended because that something happens to be Hubzilla or (streams) or maybe even only Friendica.
Now, it's tempting to demand that everything in the Fediverse that is neither Mastodon nor built against Mastodon be made more like Mastodon. Including server apps that predate Mastodon and have a wholly different focus from Mastodon (Friendica is a Facebook alternative that's 5 years older than Mastodon, and Hubzilla is a Friendica fork and a Facebook-alternative-plus-social-CMS that's still ten months older than Mastodon), and including server apps that can be traced back to these.
Well, if it's justified to ask something that works entirely differently from Mastodon by purpose, and that had been around for quite a while when Mastodon was launched, to become more like Mastodon, then I can ask why Mastodon and everything else doesn't become more like Forte. Conversation containers (which means that Mastodon would have to introduce conversations in the first place), full HTML rendering support, fine-grained permissions, nomadic identity etc.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #FediverseIf you talk about the Fediverse as a whole, the entire network, but you refer to it as "Mastodon", I can't take you seriously. It goes to show that you're completely unaware of there even being a Fediverse beyond Mastodon. Either that, or you want the Fediverse to only be Mastodon.
If you use the phrase "Mastodon and the Fediverse", I can't take you seriously either. Clearly, not only don't you really know anything about the Fediverse outside of Mastodon, but you don't even really care for anything that isn't Mastodon.
The network is called "Fediverse", and it is far from being only Mastodon.
"Mastodon" should only refer to that particular part of the Fediverse in contrast to e.g. Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica, Pixelfed, PeerTube, Funkwhale, Owncast and all the rest of the Fediverse.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse The readability aspect is interesting. It directly contradicts those who say that if text is illegible in the image, it doesn't have to or even mustn't be transcribed. And I myself go as far as transcribing text that's so tiny that it's invisible.
But: Information that is not available in the image and not in the actual post either must never go into the alt-text!
Not everyone can access alt-text. Not everyone is on a phone. Not all possible frontends support alt-text. And some people are phyiscally incapable of accessing alt-text, for example, because they can't use a pointing device such as a mouse or a trackball.
If information is only available in the alt-text and nowhere else, it is completely inaccessible and therefore lost to a whole lot of people.
Thus, explanations must always go somewhere where they can access them, ideally into the post.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #A11y #Accessibility
This has nothing to do with laziness.
For the vast majority of people in the Fediverse, including developers, the Fediverse == ActivityPub and only ActivityPub. For many, the Fediverse == Mastodon and maybe stuff that was bolted onto Mastodon after the fact. If there's another protocol they've even only heard of, it's Bluesky. So if they develop any new Fediverse server application, it's always a) ActivityPub only and b) being built against Mastodon with no regards to anything else in the Fediverse.
Almost nobody knows that anything in the Fediverse supports more than one protocol. That's largely unheard of and largely unimaginable. A poll has revealed that three out of four Fediverse users have never even heard the name "Hubzilla". Most of those who have heard of Friendica without having used it think it's another Mastodon-like ActivityPub-only Twitter clone, but with no character limit, because what else could it possibly be in a Mastodon-dominated Fediverse
This also means that Fediverse users and Fediverse developers alike don't know which Fediverse projects are able to connect to diaspora*. Hell, the vast majority of Fediverse users and developers have never even heard of diaspora* itself!
And then there's the ActivityPub-centricism. In the opinion of most, ActivityPub is the only protocol that's even tolerated in the Fediverse. Sure, why not connect diaspora* to the Fediverse But in order for this, diaspora* must add ActivityPub support. Full stop.
For in practice, the most wide-spread definition of the Fediverse is "everything that can connect to Mastodon". But before Mastodon itself adds another protocol and actively reaches out to something that isn't Mastodon, it adds full HTML rendering support. And before Mastodon adds full HTML rendering support, hell freezes over.
Besides, why would the Mastodon devs add features to something which they have the balls to declare "the only feature-complete Fediverse project" straight into the face of a Hubzilla veteran (This very thing has actually happened to me, and I've got witnesses. Luckily for this guy, I couldn't be bothered to list up Hubzilla features and ask him whether Mastodon has them.)
Both Friendica and Hubzilla don't have support for additional protocols built into their cores in various places. It's always an add-on, it's always optional, and it's pretty much always off by default for new accounts/channels. So why split across a whole bunch of files what can just as well be put into one Besides, I don't know if Friendica and/or Hubzilla supports add-ons that are spread across multiple PHP files.
And more lightweight. Hubzilla actually produces less server load per user than Mastodon. And Hubzilla has vastly more features than Mastodon.
Well, a feature monster like Hubzilla can barely be harnessed with a Twitter-like, easy-peasy UI. Could be one reason, albeit neither the only one nor the most important one, why nobody has ever even tried to develop a Hubzilla phone app that puts Hubzilla behind an all-new mobile UI. Such an app would be more complex than K-9 Mail.
That being said, Scott M. Stolz is working on brand-new general-purpose themes, although the first one will be based on Redbasic, and is working on brand-new special-purpose themes.
Der Pepe (Hubzilla) is currently .
Especially now that Zot6 is so firmly tied to Hubzilla, I don't think it's a good idea to build another project on on Zot from scratch. You'd have to make everything compatible with Hubzilla and keep it compatible with Hubzilla. Zot/Nomad is not a W3C standard. There's no committee behind it. The old Zot is maintained by the Hubzilla maintainers and tied to Hubzilla, Nomad is still maintained by Mike Macgirvin and tied to (streams).
Besides, a server application that has both Zot6 and ActivityPub firmly and permanently built into the core is an even stupider idea. On Hubzilla, ActivityPub is deactivated on new channels by default for a very good reason. The reason is because ActivityPub, like all other non-nomadic protocols, still interferes with Zot's nomadic identity.
Even if, for some reason, you decided to build your server app in a more traditional way, non-nomadic with no channels and the identity firmly tied to the account, I wouldn't entirely rule out interference. Besides, if you decide to go non-nomadic, where's the point in using Zot and constantly having to keep pace with Hubzilla then Permissions Ask Mike how he did them on Forte, using only ActivityPub.
The original very idea behind (streams) was for developers to fork it (ideally soft-fork it), build something on top of it and give it a name and a brand.
Remember that it isn't named "Streams", it's named nothing, it doesn't have a name, it doesn't have a brand identity. That's fully intentional, partly to spite brand worshippers, partly so that those who'd fork (streams) wouldn't have to rename it because it doesn't have a name to change to begin with.
It's another story that nobody has ever forked (streams) into a new project, and instead, people kept developing all-new, ActivityPub-only server apps against Mastodon or forking Mastodon's underwhelming and outdated code or Misskey's inherently messed-up code.
and thus removed from installations for a very good reason: In 2020, Hubzilla was upgraded to Zot6 which had been developed on Osada and Zap. But that would have required the Chess app to undergo quite a lot of changes. And the devs couldn't see how the Chess-specific activities could possibly be mapped to Zot6.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #diaspora* #Zot #Nomad #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams)
Hubzilla doesn't even need ActivityPub. Hubzilla was the first to implement it, two months before Mastodon, but it doesn't depend on it. Zot has always taken care of everything.
ActivityPub is an add-on and only there for Hubzilla to be able to connect to ActivityPub-using servers. It's optional for both hubs and channels. For channels, it's turned off by default like all other non-nomadic bidirectional protocols because it interferes with nomadic identity.
Even (streams), which has ActivityPub built into the core and on by default on new channels, doesn't depend on it because Nomad takes care of everything. Mike Macgirvin's first creation that depends on ActivityPub is Forte from about two and a half months ago because it has tossed all other protocols out.
And still, both Hubzilla and (streams) take the ActivityPub standard plus FEPs more seriously than Mastodon.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #ActivityPub #Fediverse #Mastodon #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte
They've got different premises. Friendica was designed to be an alternative to Facebook, and it pre-dates Mastodon by five and a half years. Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte are in the same family of forks by the same creator with more or less the same premise. Socialhome is another Facebook alternative, and the fact that it can federate with diaspora*, just like Friendica and Hubzilla, goes to show how old it is. It should be clear that neither of the five is an add-on to Mastodon.
Nobody can demand from them to throw their entire conversation support overboard and become more like Mastodon, just because Mastodon is the biggest Fediverse project, and to more people than not, Mastodon is the Fediverse. That is, people can try, but they can't expect this to happen.
It's even less likely to happen than Friendica throwing its old native culture, geared towards its feature set and its conversation support, out of the window and completely replace it with Mastodon's culture which is largely incompatible with Friendica's technology.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Socialhome
Russia says U.S. missile decision could raise the stakes in Ukraine war
Washington is easing limits on what Ukraine can strike with U.S.-made weaponry, U.S. officials told The Associated Press on Sunday.
-rangemissiles
As far as contact discovery goes, that point goes to the actual social networking server apps in the Fediverse, the Facebook alternatives, rather than the microblogging server apps that are being misused as social networks. I think doesn't suggest potential new contacts to you, and Mastodon definitely doesn't. But Facebook does, and so do Friendica and the rest of its family (Hubzilla, (streams), Forte). (streams) could be the king of this because it can find both all kinds of ActivityPub actors (unlike Hubzilla) and actors using the nomadic protocols on which Hubzilla and (streams) itself are based (unlike Friendica), if only it had more and especially larger public instances.
By the way, only a week ago, I wrote .
Also, all four are better equipped for finding your own kind of people. You don't need instances for specific target audiences which newbies will almost never hear of. You don't have to fumble around with hashtags, not even knowing what the "right" hashtag for a certain topic is.
That's because all four have native built-in support for discussion groups. Pretty much all the Fediverse can connect to these groups, but it's here where these groups are at home, and Mastodon doesn't even understand the concept of groups. Not to mention that, unlike Guppe groups, these groups can be moderated. And at least on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, they can be fully private so that non-members can't look inside and even hidden from public directories.
As far as moderation goes, especially Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte are geared towards self-moderation. They have extensive permissions systems on three levels (per channel, per contact, per post). In combination with their understanding and system of conversations (which Mastodon completely lacks as well), you can moderate your own threads and even delete offending comments. Unfortunately, you can't have them purged from the whole Fediverse.
Also, the reliance on self-moderation means that neither of the three has a Report button or even only a report system built in, so they don't understand Mastodon's report system either. If you need to report something to one of the instance admins, you'll have to send them a DM. Most public Hubzilla hubs only reveal who the admins are in the JSON-formatted siteinfo. On (streams) and Forte, you'll have to go to the directory, have only local channels shown, sort them by age and guess which of the oldest actually local channels are admins.
That said, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte have much more radical methods at hand for keeping unwanted stuff out than Mastodon. Most Fediverse server applications allow for admins to block entire instances, many, (streams) and Forte included, even give users this power. But (streams) and Forte have received a new feature called "user agent filter" in September which is capable of blocking entire Fediverse projects on a per-instance level. It was mainly designed as a more advanced counter-measure against Threads, but it can just as well be used to lock out the entirety of Mastodon, Glitch included, or the entirety of Pleroma, for example. It can even operate on an allowlist which, in addition to (streams)/Forte's own instances, only allows certain other server apps.
And since Hubzilla and (streams) both aren't based on ActivityPub, and ActivityPub is optional on both, they can theoretically completely raise the drawbridge and cut everything based on ActivityPub off in one fell swoop. In this case, they can only interact with each other, and Hubzilla can also optionally interact with diaspora* and Friendica via the diaspora* protocol. In fact, I know one (streams) group where ActivityPub was deactivated with the very intention to keep Mastodon out.
The main issue of all four has to be UX. None of the four has an official iOS and/or Android app. Friendica is from 2010 and designed for standard desktop browsers, and the others are the only survivors of a long family of forks. They can all be set up as progressive Web apps, but nobody knows what that even is, much less how to do that. Also, people need something with the same name as the server application that they can install from the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store.
Friendica is the only one of the four with third-party apps with a native mobile UI. Even then, there's exactly one app readily available in the Apple App Store and the Google Play Store, RaccoonForFriendica, and it's so brand-new that it has only just had its first "stable" release (version 0.1.0). All that Hubzilla has is Nomad, an app only available on F-Droid that's a specialised browser for the Web interface, and that has last seen a new version almost five years ago. (streams) has nothing, Forte even less because it's so new and bleeding-edge that it currently has exactly one private instance with exactly one user.
Truth be told, a mobile app with a fully native mobile UI for (streams) and Forte would be so deep that it'd rival K-9 Mail in complexity, and such an app for Hubzilla would be even more complex.
Friendica supports the Mastodon client API, but no app out there that can be used with Friendica covers more than a small subset of Friendica's features. Basically, unless it's Fedilab, you're forced to use Friendica like Mastodon. In this regard, it'd be completely foolish to add the Mastodon client API to Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte. It wouldn't happen anyway because the devs refuse to have too much proprietary, non-standard Mastodon technology on board.
One could say that the UX is a general issue. This is partially because, again, Friendica was geared towards the desktop almost one and a half decades ago with a Web UI designed by a protocol developer. At least, its UI has taken some cues from Misskey apparently.
Hubzilla's only remaining theme was dolled up this year with more colour configuration options, but otherwise, its only available theme and therefore its entire UX is stuck in 2012 when it was still named Red. New third-party themes are still in development. And while (streams) got a brand-new, fresh theme (appropriately named Fresh) which Forte inherited, it isn't modelled in the style of a 2024 mobile app either.
It certainly doesn't help that Friendica is a very complex piece of software. Forte is more complex. (streams) is another bit more complex. and Hubzilla is the most complex one of the four by far and, while technologically still more advanced than most of the Fediverse, stuck in 2012 in other UX-related things. In addition, Hubzilla is the only one of the four where you have to turn ActivityPub support on, and finding that "switch" is anything but straight-forward.
What doesn't help either is people's expectations. I'd say that people escaping from Facebook might get used to Friendica without too many problems, probably more easily than Mastodon which works entirely differently.
But what most people coming to the Fediverse are looking for is Twitter. Or something as close to Twitter as possible. You see it in the many Mastodonians who keep using Mastodon like Twitter.
Bluesky is an all-out, 1:1 clone of Twitter from about ten years ago, all the way to appearing to be (and actually mostly being) a centralised, monolithic silo just like Twitter.
Mastodon already repels people escaping from by both not really looking and feeling like Twitter and the prospect of having to choose an instance (which is FUD because the official app railroads newbies to mastodon.social). The millions who joined two years ago only joined because the vast majority of them were basically "told" that Mastodon, and therefore the Fediverse, is only one website: mastodon.social. Or mas.to. Or mstdn.social. You get the point, I guess.
Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte aren't Twitter clones. They don't aim to be just like Twitter with all its shortcomings included. They aim to be sort of like Facebook, but better, with extra features and with Facebook's shortcomings removed. Facebook looks, feels and works nothing like . It never has. And so, these four are about as far away from being anything like as they could possibly be. And that's by design.
But it isn't user-friendly to those who are looking for the closest thing to the official mobile app.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Onboarding #Moderation #UI #UX
Russia says U.S. missile decision could raise the stakes in Ukraine war
Washington is easing limits on what Ukraine can strike with U.S.-made weaponry, U.S. officials told The Associated Press on Sunday.
-rangemissiles
Russia says U.S. missile decision could raise the stakes in Ukraine war
Washington is easing limits on what Ukraine can strike with U.S.-made weaponry, U.S. officials told The Associated Press on Sunday.
-rangemissiles
Biden OKs Ukraines use of U.S.-supplied long-range missiles in Russia .S.Official .s.SuppliedLongRangeMissile
What the masses fleeing from Twitter want is Twitter. Twitter without Musk, but otherwise Twitter.In other words, a centralised, monolithic, walled-up silo for total dumb-dumbs with Twitter's UI and Twitter's UX. An even closer Twitter clone than Bluesky.
And if it can't be centralised and monolithic and walled-up because it's a) decentralised itself and b) in the Fediverse, it must still present itself to the general public and everyone on as centralised, monolithic and walled-up. That's all they can handle. It even has to lie to the users on its own lighthouse instance to keep them on board.
.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Twitter # #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse
Ploumanach by cbreadwine
Hubzilla-Veteran hier.Im Grunde ist es so einfach, wie Hubzilla eben ist. Wenn du Hubzilla zum Bloggen nehmen willst, ist das ein Kanal wie jeder andere auch, nur da du ihn eben als Blog fhrst. Da sind deine Posts dann Blogposts. Und neben dem ganzen Fediverse (unter den Apps ActivityPub nicht vergessen zu aktivieren) kann man dir auch per Atom-Feed (mit oder ohne Kommentare, wie es sich gehrt) und optional auch auf diaspora* (mu auch erst aktiviert werden) folgen.
Und sollte dir Mastodon mal auf den Keks gehen, kannst du unter deinem Hubzilla-Account einen zweiten Kanal fr dein Social Networking anlegen und zwischen dem und deinem Blog einfach hin- und herschalten.
Du kannst ja mit Hubzilla alles Mgliche und Unmgliche machen. Einfach mal Der Pepe (Hubzilla) folgen, der wirbt gerne dafr und schreibt gerade die Dokumentation neu. Der ist auch von ihm.
ffentliche, offene Hubzilla-Hubs gibt's einige, gerade in Deutschland, zumal Hubzilla von Deutschland aus maintaint wird. Ich bin selbst auf den beiden grten Hubs Netzgemeinde updatet schnell auf neue Versionen und hat den Chefentwickler als Co-Admin.
Wenn dir weder Friendica noch Hubzilla vertraut sind, solltest du eh auf einem ffentlichen Hub anfangen. Umziehen kannst du immer noch, gibt ja nomadische Identitt.
Wenn du aber unbedingt deinen eigenen Hub aufziehen willst, frag mal , der baut an einem spezialisierten Blog-Theme, das ein bichen mehr in Richtung Medium, WriteFreely oder Plume geht. Vielleicht willst du das installieren, dann hat er ein Versuchskaninchen mehr.
Was es aus der Familie sonst noch gbe, so der Vollstndigkeit halber:
- , das eigentlich namenlos ist, ist ein Urur...enkel von Hubzilla, ziemlich verschlankt, aber noch fortschrittlicher und in der Bedienung streckenweise
einfacherweniger kompliziert.
Vorteil eventuell: Du kannst auch Markdown und HTML nutzen und nicht nur BBcode.
Nachteil: Leider gibt's eigentlich nur noch eine ffentliche Instanz mit auch nur halboffener Registrierung, die man empfehlen kann. Die ist in den USA, und da mu man den Beitritt begrnden. Klar kann man das auch selber aufsetzen, aber wenn man es noch nicht kennt, sollte man erst woanders probefahren. - ist ganz neu, erst ein Vierteljahr alt, und es hat erst einen einzigen Nutzer, nmlich Mike Macgirvin selber. Im Prinzip ist es ein auf ActivityPub reduziertes (streams), das ansonsten alles kann, was auch (streams) kann. Zum Early Adopten ist es wohl noch etwas frh, nomadische Identitt ber ActivityPub ist noch nicht in freier Wildbahn getestet worden, wenn berhaupt, und Mike macht selbst noch keine groe Werbung dafr ich wollte es nur mal erwhnt haben.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Blog #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte Twitter support on Friendica and Hubzilla is technically still implemented, but factually ended when Twitter closed their API for third-party clients. That was when Musk was already at the helm.
Facebook support on Friendica must have started in late 2011 when Mike still maintained it, and it already ended in 2012, but that might have been when the community maintained Facebook.
By the way, diaspora* support came to Friendica in mid-2011 after about half a year of work, including a lot of reverse-engineering. Hubzilla, being a Friendica fork, has had it since it was launched.
OStatus support was removed from Hubzilla with version 6. I'd have to look up when it came out. Whether Friendica still supports it, no idea.
The uafilter was introduced to (streams) and Forte in September, 2024.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #StatusNet #diaspora* #Tumblr #Twitter #Facebook #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte The creations of one Mike Macgirvin (all of which were or still are in the Fediverse and connected to Mastodon, by the way) made all of this possible in some way.
Friendica was created in 2010 with connecting to everything and then some as a goal. It connects to the entire Fediverse, to diaspora*, to Tumblr, to Bluesky (without the Bridgy Fed bridge), even to e-mail, it can subscribe to RSS and Atom feeds while generating an Atom feed itself, and it used to connect to the OStatus protocol of StatusNet and GNU social, until fairly recently to Twitter and, for a while in the early 2010s, even to Facebook. I'm not kidding, really not. I was there myself.
Granted, the connections to Bluesky, Tumblr, Twitter and Facebook don't/didn't work like those to diaspora*, StatusNet and the ActivityPub-based Fediverse when Friendica still had its own protocol. You still need(ed) an account on the other side, but you integrate(d) that account into your Friendica account, and you post(ed) to your connections on Bluesky and Tumblr and Twitter and Mastodon just like to all your other connections.
However, especially Twitter and Facebook didn't want that. Twitter kept changing their API with no prior announcement, not only to keep third-party clients out, but probably also to keep Friendica and later Hubzilla out, at least for a while.
And Facebook changed its rules for developers (as a Friendica node admin, you needed to be registered as a dev on Facebook to be able to connect the Facebook add-on on your node to Facebook): Sending data to Facebook was still allowed, but extracting data was forbidden from then on. This made the whole Facebook add-on useless.
each independent instance can select which other platforms to federate with (similar to now).
The only Fediverse server apps that really have something like this implemented are by Mike Macgirvin, too: (streams) from 2021 and Forte from August (he is currently the only user of the latter). They have a per-instance "user agent filter" that can operate either in a blocklist mode which keeps certain user agents out or in an allowlist mode which only lets certain user agents in. This filter is designed to also let through/keep out certain Fediverse server applications, including but not limited to Threads.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #StatusNet #diaspora* #Tumblr #Twitter #Facebook #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte That's why my image descriptions for my original images are so extensive: so that people learn what they need to know about the obscure virtual worlds my images are from to understand the images.
If they have the patience to read through one massive alt-text and, in addition, one frequently absolutely gargantuan long image description in the post, that is. (No character limit here.)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #VirtualWorlds #Metaverse #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta Four points:
- Don't use line feeds in alt-text. Always make it one paragraph.
- Always end your sentences properly, e.g. with a full stop (that's a period for y'all Americans).
- Don't use quotes like on a computer keyboard. They may break alt-text. No, seriously, they may. Use actual, typographically correct quote () instead.
- All-caps may irritate screen readers. I know that all text in an image must be transcribed verbatim, but all-caps are an exception. Transcribe them normally and, if you deem it important, tell people separately that the text is in all-caps.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta -exposure
But Id be willing to bet that most of the people who would do Alt with AI are in fact willing to just offer a second-class experience to the disabled.
Yup. For many fully sighted people, image-describing AI is a nicely convenient fire-and-forget alt-text generator. They've never seen any of their own alt-texts, much less edited any of them.
BTW I think that 100% of images coming to Fedi from Threads have this kind of Alt and it's generally lousy, in fact worse than I think modern Ai should be able to do.
Threads uses the exact same image-describing AI as Facebook. It's infamous for how bad it is. I mean, there'll never be an AI that lives up to my standards, but seriously, Meta's AI is horrible.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Meta #Threads #Facebook #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta Add your location to a Google Map (streams) and probably also Forte already offer two features in this direction.
One, they can import contact lists from ActivityPub or CSV files. Okay, that still requires the handling of files, knowledge where they are on your device and knowledge what files are in the first place. But you can connect to up to 1,000 actors in one fell swoop, provided you're willing to manage that many contacts.
Two, and this is for those who want to pick people or things to follow one by one: built-in connection discovery and connection suggestions la Facebook. A feature as old as Friendica, and Friendica is the oldest surviving Fediverse project, pre-dating Mastodon by five and a half years.
On your stream page which is hard-coded as your landing page, you have an area with two randomly changing connection suggestions on the left. It includes a link to a whole page dedicated to suggestions. On your connections page (which, unlike on Mastodon, is not buried in the settings it can actually be added to the navigation bar if you so desire so you can get there with one click), there's the same suggestion area. Right below it, there's a small area for searching for contacts which has another link to the suggestions page.
The suggestions page is actually only the directory of almost all Fediverse actors known to that server instance, but filtered for what may be interesting for you according to your profile. Of course, the results improve when you actually fill out your profile some, especially the keywords field. Each suggestion is presented with their various profile fields (if they've given permission to see their profile), numbers of followers and followed for ActivityPub actors (even though (streams) and Forte themselves don't distinguish between them), a handy big green button for connecting and a similarly big yellow button for removing that actor from the suggestions. Not just like on Facebook, but better than Facebook. This is what you may wish dating portals were like.
If the suggestions aren't sufficient, you may also peruse the whole directory. It contains all Fediverse actors known to that (streams) instance. My two (streams) channels are on an instance with only 13 channels altogether, but it still knows lots of actors from all over the Fediverse. The directory looks largely the same as when acting as a suggestions list, only without the Ignore button. You still get complete profile previews and, for ActivityPub actors, follower/followed counts.
The directory can be filtered by keyword, either by search field or by tag cloud. In addition, it can show
- only channels on the same server instance as you
- only group actors (Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups, Forte groups if there were any, Guppe groups, Lemmy communities, /kbin magazines, Mbin magazines, NodeBB subforums, Flipboard magazines etc.)
- only actors not flagged NSFW (at least Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte channels can be flagged NSFW as a whole)
- only actors that have fairly recently been active
Again, it's impressive how much a (streams) instance with only 13 channels knows. A much bigger and much more diverse instance would also have a vastly bigger directory.
This, by the way, is also why topic-specialised or community-specialised instances make even more sense on (streams) and Forte than on Mastodon. For one, there's more interesting stuff and less uninteresting clutter in the directory. Besides, this goes doubly for the directory in local mode. Lastly, nomadic identity allows you to have the same channel on multiple instances anyway.
Granted, this is not as easy and convenient as following several dozen gamers or Linux users or climate activists with two clicks. But it goes well beyond what Mastodon offers already now.
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#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Onboarding #StarterPacks #Streams #(streams) #Forte Und wenn man ihnen widerspricht, schreien sie "Reply Guying" und blockieren einen.
Nicht etwa, weil man eine Wahrheit ausgesprochen hat, die ihnen unbequem ist (wie bei all den Leuten, die unbedingt wollen, da das Fediverse nur Mastodon ist). Sondern weil man ihnen mit etwas widersprochen hat, das leider nicht offensichtlichermaen Unfug ist, sondern aussehen knnte, als htte es Hand und Fu.
Da behauptest du zwei Jahre lang steif und fest, das Fediverse ist nur Mastodon. Dann kommt einer von Firefish oder Friendica oder Hubzilla und sagt dir, das Fediverse ist nicht nur Mastodon, und Mastodon ist noch mit ganz anderen Sachen verbunden. Du wrdest das gerne als Schwachsinn abtun, um deinen eigenen Hintern zu retten. Ist nur eben bld, da der Umstand, da dir gerade einer geantwortet hat, der selber nicht auf Mastodon ist, direktweg der Gegenbeweis fr deine Behauptungen ist.
Aber genau deswegen sollte man solche Leute erst recht "reply-guyen" und "fedisplainen". Wer sich so auffhrt, hat das verdient. Leider werden sie das dann nur selber lesen und nicht ihre Followers, weil Mastodon keine Konversationen untersttzt.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #NichtNurMastodon #ReplyGuy #ReplyGuys #Fedisplaining
Joe Coles 13/1 Bet Builder
Scott M. Stolz That, and they've never been told that something, anything, exists in the Fediverse outside of Mastodon that's connected to Mastodon. Whoever pulled them on board either deemed this information unnecessary or confusing, or they didn't know it themselves either.These people only learn about the existence of a Fediverse outside of Mastodon either from a post that does loads of things which are completely impossible on Mastodon or from a reply guy on Akkoma, Firefish, Friendica, Hubzilla etc.
At least this guy did not freak out when he learned about the existence of a Fediverse outside of Mastodon. That is, I don't know how he'll react once a very un-Mastodon post hits his timeline.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Akkoma #Firefish #Friendica #Hubzilla #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #ReplyGuy #Fedisplaining
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- The start poster literally states that the Fediverse and Mastodon are the exact same thing. He has been on Mastodon for two years, since immediately after Musk has bought Twitter out.
- Another Mastodon user applauds.
- A Friendica user reply-guys the start poster and Fedisplains that the Fediverse is, in fact, not only Mastodon.
I was tempted to jump in myself and correct that guy about the Fediverse allegedly only being Mastodon. But this has been taken care of.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #ReplyGuy #FedisplainingI've just come to the realisation that putting long descriptions into external documents in the file space of my Hubzilla channel and then linking to them is a dumb idea. It's especially so for the use-case for which it was considered for, and that's posts with multiple embedded images.
It's untested. It's experimental. It might not even work for all I know. It's inconvenient for mobile users because their browser will pop up when they tap the link to the long image description in their Mastodon apps. That is, if it works they way I intend it to work. Which, again, I'm not sure about.
But most of all, it creates too much redundancy.
If I put all my long image descriptions into separate documents, then everything that's in all images likewise will have to be described in all its details once for each image. And all explanations that usually come with my long image descriptions will have to be there once for each image. If I have four images, I need four times the same explanation of way over 1,000 characters where the images were made even though they were all made in the very same place.
That's because I can't expect everyone to open and read all long descriptions. In fact, I can't count on everyone opening and reading the first long description. Thus, I can't explain everything only in the first long description. If someone only opens the second or third or fourth long description, they'll be missing a whole lot of explanation because it's only in the first description.
Sure, I could tell people where the explanations are. But that'd mean that the alt-text for the fourth image would tell them about the long description for the fourth image, but the long description for the fourth image would be very incomplete and refer people to the long descriptions of the first three images. Having to read five descriptions in five separate places in two apps for one image is even more cumbersome than having to read two descriptions in two different places in two apps for one image.
On the other hand, if I put all my long image descriptions into the post itself like I've always done since I've started taking image descriptions seriously, they wouldn't be right below the images proper in a post with multiple images embedded in-between text. But they'd be in the very same place as the images.
More importantly, they'd all be in the same place, full stop. I could do as I've always done recently. I could start with a common preamble for all four image descriptions in which I explain common stuff, and in which I even describe common stuff. And then I could let the specific descriptions for the individual images follow. Each bit of information would be there only once in one place and not four times over in four separate places.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta If they notice.
Thing is: If someone on Pleroma, Akkoma, Mitra, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte quote-posts someone else, that someone else is notified as if they've been mentioned. If they're notified when they're mentioned by a non-contact out of the blue, that is. Mods might not notice.
If someone on Misskey or any of its various still active forks and fork-forks quote-posts someone else, that someone else is not notified, and neither are any mods unless they happen upon the quote-post.
Also, nobody and nothing on Mastodon can prevent anybody outside of Mastodon from quote-posting anyone on Mastodon. And there's a whole lot outside of Mastodon that can and will always be able to quote-post Mastodon toots with zero resistance. See my start post in this thread for 18 server apps that can do that.
However, this much should be said: Friendica has had quote-posts for over 14 years. Hubzilla has had quote-posts for, technically speaking, almost 13 years. And never in all these years have quote-posts been used on either to harass anyone on Friendica, on Hubzilla, on Mastodon or elsewhere.
Sounds hard to believe for people who only know Twitter and Mastodon, I know. But Friendica and Hubzilla aren't almost entirely populated by people who came from Twitter. They aren't Twitter alternatives anyway. Friendica is a Facebook alternative, and Hubzilla is a Facebook alternative on coke and steroids. Both have a totally, completely different culture from Twitter as well as from Mastodon, both early Mastodon and today's Mastodon. There is no influence from Twitter on them whatsoever.
In fact, until Hubzilla 9.0 which came out this year, Hubzilla did not even have repeats (= retweets = boosts). It had always used quote-posts (= shared posts in Hubzilla lingo) for this purpose.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Friendica #Hubzilla #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate Scott M. Stolz
Some people abuse them. They quote someone and then mock them for what they said.
More specifically:
On Twitter/, hateful right-wing people harass members of marginalised minorities (BIPoC, 2SLGBTQIA+ etc.) by quote-tweeting one of their tweets, mocking them in the tweet that quote-tweets them and then having others mock them even more in the replies. This is so commonplace that it feels like the only use-case that quote-tweets still have on .
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #Twitter # #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweetsTejan Ausland Yes, but many on Mastodon don't understand this.
For them, the Mastodon devs are the creators and keepers of the Fediverse itself as well as "the good guys" who have made the single most awesome piece of server software in decades. If the Mastodon devs even only imply that an opt-out or opt-in switch for quote-posts will bring absolute safety from being quote-posted, they take it at face value.
So when they opt out of being quote-posted, and someone from outside of Mastodon quote-posts them anyway, they won't blame it on the Mastodon devs having promised them something impossible. Never would the Mastodon devs do that.
Rather, the devs behind whatever that someone is using are the bad guys. They're rogues, they're evil hackers who have introduced quote-posts just to be able to spite and harass Mastodon users. Why else would something introduce quote-posts after all
The one thing that'll protect wherever that someone is from their wrath is that most of them won't be able to figure out what that someone is using. Just because Mastodon users can look up a post at its source, doesn't mean they know they can, much less they actually do.
So they may try to get allegedly rogue instances Fediblocked just because these instances are non-Mastodon instances doing what they regularly do. They may succeed because at least some blocklist maintainers don't have a clue about the Fediverse outside Mastodon, its capabilities and its culture either. But it's unlikely that they'll pinpoint this culprit having used Sharkey, have all of Sharkey Fediblocked for being able to "circumvent" Mastodon's quote-post opt-out/opt-in, then pinpoint that the next quote-poster is using Akkoma and have all of Akkoma Fediblocked and so forth.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Blocklist #Blocklists #BlocklistMeta #FediblockMetaBy the way, there's exactly one way of being safe from being quote-posted in the Fediverse:
Move to Hubzilla or (streams). Keep all optional communications protocols off, including ActivityPub. Disallow quoting and mirroring of your posts entirely in your channel role (on Hubzilla) or keep your channel type on Limited ((streams)). Make sure that none of your contact roles (Hubzilla) or permission roles ((streams)) allows it. Try to live with only contacts on Hubzilla and (streams) none of them would ever use quote-posts for nefarious reasons, but better safe than sorry. Always post to a restricted audience so that sharing your posts isn't possible anyway. And never comment on public posts so that sharing your comments isn't possible either.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebateOne of the worst aspects of Mastodon's plans to introduce quote-posts with a switch:
You keep having to tell Mastodon users that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon. That (insert a long list of Fediverse server applications here) have had quote-posts from the beginning. That they're all in the Fediverse. That they're all fully federated with Mastodon. That they can all quote-post any Mastodon toot they can possibly receive or import. And that they will be able to quote-post any Mastodon toot they can in the future, regardless of Mastodon account settings.
Up until this point, they were fully, firmly convinced that they're 100% safe from quote-posts on Mastodon. Either because they could not for the lives of them imagine that anything in the Fediverse has them. Or simply because they "knew" up until this point that the Fediverse is Mastodon. And if Mastodon introduces an opt-out or opt-in switch, this switch will mean absolute, 100% water-tight safety from quote-posts.
But for the Fediverse outside of Mastodon, the quote-post switch will be completely useless. Again: These lots of Fediverse server apps have had quote-posts before Mastodon introduced them. They had quote-posts before Mastodon invented the opt-in or opt-out switch. I mean, at least two of them have had quote-posts since before Mastodon even existed! So how are they supposed to support a proprietary, non-standard, Mastodon-specific switch which probably won't be documented anywhere before Mastodon rolls out quote-posts
I'll tell you what'll happen.
Mastodon users will deactivate quote-posts for their accounts or not activate them in the first place. Non-Mastodon users, not knowing about the status of that switch, will quote-post them regardless with zero resistance. Upon which these Mastodon users will shit brix. And they'll call for either blocking that obviously rogue Mastodon user instance-wide, or blocking that user's instance, or Fediblocking that user's instance.
At this point, someone else who is not on Mastodon either will chime in and tell them: That particular user is, in fact, not on Mastodon. The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. That user is on Friendica. No, Friendica is not a rogue Mastodon instance. Friendica is not Mastodon at all. No, Friendica isn't a Mastodon fork either. Friendica has nothing to do with Mastodon. In fact, Friendica is older than Mastodon. On Friendica, quote-posts are perfectly normal. Friendica has had quote-posts for longer than Mastodon has even existed. And so forth.
Cue the Mastodon user shitting brix again, foaming with anger and calling for a Fediblock of all of Friendica.
In fact, I'm pretty sure that if Mastodon's quote-post feature and the rest of the Fediverse disregarding it leads to more awareness of the non-Mastodon Fediverse and its non-Mastodon features on Mastodon, it will also lead to demands for being able to completely block everything that isn't Mastodon, either on an account level (and then on by default, of course) or on an instance level or both.
Oh, by the way: The ability to completely lock out entire Fediverse projects already exists in the Fediverse right now, too. It's exclusive to two other Fediverse server apps that aren't Mastodon, both of which introduced this feature in September.
Here's a probably incomplete list of still-active Fediverse server apps with quote-posts which, yes, can quote-post Mastodon toots right now and will be able to quote-post Mastodon toots regardless of opt-in or opt-out:
- Pleroma
- Akkoma
- Misskey
- Firefish
- Sharkey
- Iceshrimp
- Iceshrimp.NET
- CherryPick
- Neko
- Catodon
- Meisskey
- Tanukey
- Metaskey
- Mitra
- Friendica
- Hubzilla
- (streams)
- Forte
(Inb4 both Oliphant and The Bad Space trying hard to catch all instances of the server apps mentioned above to blocklist them all.)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Calckey #Firefish #Sharkey #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp.NET #CherryPick #Neko #Catodon #Meisskey #Tanukey #Metaskey #Mitra #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Threads #BridgyFed #Bluesky #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #FediblockMeta #Oliphant #TheBadSpace Nur so als Hinweis:
Selbst wenn das nicht kommen sollte, heit das nicht, da das Fediverse keine Quote-Posts haben wird. Auch wenn Mastodon keine Quote-Posts hat, das Fediverse hat sie, und zwar schon seit Juli 2010, mehr als fnf Jahre lnger, als es Mastodon gibt.
Misskey und seine ganzen Forks und Forkforks (Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, Catodon, CherryPick, Neko, Meisskey, Tanukey, Metaskey etc. pp.) haben alle Quote-Posts und knnen auch weiterhin so ziemlich jeden Mastodon-Trt widerstandslos quote-posten.
Friendica, wo ist, Hubzilla, wo ich bin, (streams) und Forte haben auch alle Quote-Posts und knnen weiterhin so ziemlich jeden Mastodon-Trt widerstandslos quote-posten. Solange es Mastodon gibt, konnten Friendica und Hubzilla Mastodon-Trts quote-posten.
Bei Pleroma und Akkoma bin ich mir aktuell nicht sicher.
Sieh dich mal in diesem ganzen Thread um. Ich habe hier selbst schon zwei Kommentare gequotepostet, einen von Friendica, einen von Mastodon.
Aber: Zumindest Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte sind kulturell vllig anders als . Da werden Quote-Posts so verwendet, wie sie da auch genannt werden. Nmlich zum Teilen interessanter Posts.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #Drko #Drkos #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedPosts Kommt drauf an.
Misskey und seine Forks und Forkforks (Firefish, Sharkey, Iceshrimp, CherryPick, Catodon usw.) quote-posten mit einer Referenz zum Original in einer eigenen Zeile, z. B.
RE: https://fedi.caliandroid.de/st3fan/statuses/01JCH7GC0N7SRB7N109HCZGS1M. Das heit, die Darstellung des bernommenen Post wird meines Wissens immer erst generiert, wenn der Post dargestellt wird, der den Quote-Post bernimmt. Der Originalautor wird nicht informiert.Friendica und seine Nachfahren (Hubzilla, (streams), Forte) quote-posten auf eine andere Art und Weise. Erst wird ein entsprechender Code generiert, z. B.
share=63775151/share. Der wird in den Post-Entwurf eingesetzt, da, wo der Quote-Post hinkommen soll. (An dieser Stelle sei erwhnt, da Posts auf Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte standardmig mit sichtbarem Markup-Code geschrieben werden, der auch fr Sachen wie Textformatierung genutzt wird.)Wenn der Post dann abgeschickt wird, wird daraus eine dumme, unabhngige Kopie des Originalpost generiert, die aber oben drber den Originalautor mit Link zu dessen Konto/Kanal erwhnt und auch einen Link zum Originalpost hat. Der Originalautor wird wie bei einer Erwhnung benachrichtigt.
Ein Quote-Post von Hubzilla (da und auf den anderen drei redet man von "teilen", nicht von "quote-posten") sieht dann so aus:
Wenn ich es richtig verstanden habe, haben Quote Post auch keine Abhngikeit mehr von einander (Boost ist nur ein Link zum Originalpost, wenn ich als Autor diesen entferne, ist auch jeder Boost dazu Geschichte).
Quoteposte ich etwas von euch, gehrt dieser Inhalt quasi mir inkl. meinen Ergnzungen. Vergleichbar wie ein Screenshot eines Posts, den ich in einen neuen Beitrag von mir einfge.
Auf X wrde dieses Format hufig genutzt, um andere samt ihrer Inhalte runterzumachen. Selten zur konstruktiven Diskussion.
Ich hoffe mal, dass sich die Schaffenden bei Mastodon darber noch bewusst sind und eine Quote Variante liefern, die noch eine Verbindung zum Originalpost hat und sich somit weiter in der Kontrolle der zitierten Person befindet..
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #Drko #Drkos #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedPosts Also, let's not forget Threads' very strict rules for instances wanting to connect.
If Threads actually checked all connecting instances and not only those with at least 1,000 monthly active users (or so is my impression), it would block all public instances of at least Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte now and forever and many personal or otherwise restricted instances along with them.
For example, Threads absolutely requires a publicly-visible federated timeline. All three can theoretically have a so-called public stream it can be switched between local and federated, and its visibility can be configurated to e.g. fully public, only accessible to users who can be identified and recognised as logged in (for external users, this requires OpenWebAuth magic single sign-on) or only accessible to local users. But it's fully optional which means that it can be off entirely.
And in fact, the public stream is off by default. Not only that, but public hubs generally keep it off. Special-interest instances may turn it on for local users, and personal, single-user instances may make it public, but restrict it to local. But no halfway competent admin activates an unrestricted federated public stream.
That's because it's difficult to keep in check what happens on the public stream. No instance of any of these three has 24/7 moderation that can manually step in and remove content from the pubstream within minutes or even seconds. And in fact, all three encourage their users to moderate themselves and their own channels and streams and empower them by giving them many more tools for self-moderation than Mastodon. Thus, not even the biggest Hubzilla hubs have moderators.
But at the same time, the owner of the instance can be held legally accountable for what happens on the public stream because, from a legal point of view, it happens on their website. Let something illegal be sent to a channel on a hub, and the hub admin is in trouble.
The only safe way to prevent this trouble is by not having a freely-accessible federated public stream. The very same freely-accessible federated public stream that's an absolute requirement for being allowed to connect to Threads.
So in theory, Hubzilla, (streams) and fledgling Forte, which is only one single private instance with one user right now, should be blocked on Threads in their entirety, right
In practice, AFAIK, only the two biggest Hubzilla hubs, Netzgemeinde and hub.hubzilla.de, are blocked. They're the only ones with over 1,000 MAUs. All the other hubs get a free pass, and I've yet to see a single (streams) instance on Threads' blocklist.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Threads For various reasons.
First of all, the Fediverse handles this differently. There is where you can look for users with certain tags in their profiles. Mind you, this is not a search engine with an automated, Fediverse-wide scraper. But still, it has a lot of users listed in it. And it's software-agnostic.
Bluesky-style starter packs which let you follow 40 users with one click would not be software-agnostic. They would most likely work on Mastodon, only Mastodon and nothing but Mastodon. But I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to you after eight years: The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. You can't build such a feature in a way that it works with Mastodon just the same as with Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica, Hubzilla etc. And building yet another new Fediverse feature only for Mastodon discriminates against everything that isn't Mastodon.
Also, if Mastodon specifically wanted to become a good social network with good onboarding for newbies (which, by the way, it isn't), not only should it stop holding on to pre-Musk Twitter as a role model, but taking over stuff from other microblogging platforms won't cut it either.
The most obvious solution would be to , the Facebook alternative Friendica and its descendants Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. Act more like an actual social network. Act more like Facebook. And actively suggest new contacts to its users. Because that's what all good social networks out there have done.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Bluesky #Onboarding #SocialNetwork #SocialNetworkingI've published a new article, inspired by a discussion about Fediverse onboarding a few days ago.
tldr: It's foolish to expect Mastodon to be the perfect decentralised social networking and easy to get onto. For it has never been conceived and designed for social networking. It's closely modelled after pre-Musk Twitter which is only a microblogging platform and all about content rather than people, and thus, so is Mastodon. Good social networking with good onboarding, that'd be the Facebook alternatives: Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #SocialNetwork #SocialNetworking
Dolphins In Depth: Dolphins need an all-in approach against Rams
noch einmal auf Deutsch fr die, die kein Englisch verstehen, weil die jetzt anfangen mitzulesen.Wenn ihr ber das Fediverse insgesamt redet, also das ganze Netzwerk, aber ihr nennt es "Mastodon", dann kann ich euch nicht ernstnehmen. Das zeigt, da ihr euch gar nicht bewut seid, da es ein Fediverse jenseits von Mastodon gibt. Das, oder ihr wollt, da das Fediverse nur Mastodon ist.
Wenn ihr die Formulierung "Mastodon und das Fediverse" nutzt, kann ich euch auch nicht ernstnehmen. Ganz offensichtlich wit ihr nicht nur nichts ber das Fediverse auerhalb von Mastodon, sondern alles, was nicht Mastodon ist, ist euch komplett piepschnurzegal.
Das Netzwerk heit "Fediverse", und es ist weit davon entfernt, nur Mastodon zu sein.
"Mastodon" sollte nur diesen einen bestimmten Teil des Fediverse bezeichnen im Unterschied zu z. B. Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica, Pixelfed, PeerTube, Funkwhale, Owncast und den ganzen Rest des Fediverse.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NichtNurMastodon
There are lots of things like this we can do better if we imagine Fediverse UX as a single organism.
The Fediverse is way too diverse for that. It isn't just Mastodon and Mastodon add-ons.
On the one end of the Fediverse, there's Mastodon. On the other end, there are Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte which are very, very much not Mastodon. They work entirely differently from Mastodon. And that's actually good. The Hubzilla devs and the (streams) and Forte dev even mostly refuse to adopt non-standard Mastodon stuff, much less make them more like Mastodon in general.
So you have Fediverse devs who develop new stuff for the Fediverse, but they only build it to interact with Mastodon. And then they're completely confused if something comes along and tries to interact with what they develop, but it doesn't work as intended because that something happens to be Hubzilla or (streams) or maybe even only Friendica.
Now, it's tempting to demand that everything in the Fediverse that is neither Mastodon nor built against Mastodon be made more like Mastodon. Including server apps that predate Mastodon and have a wholly different focus from Mastodon (Friendica is a Facebook alternative that's 5 years older than Mastodon, and Hubzilla is a Friendica fork and a Facebook-alternative-plus-social-CMS that's still ten months older than Mastodon), and including server apps that can be traced back to these.
Well, if it's justified to ask something that works entirely differently from Mastodon by purpose, and that had been around for quite a while when Mastodon was launched, to become more like Mastodon, then I can ask why Mastodon and everything else doesn't become more like Forte. Conversation containers (which means that Mastodon would have to introduce conversations in the first place), full HTML rendering support, fine-grained permissions, nomadic identity etc.
CC:
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #FediverseIf you talk about the Fediverse as a whole, the entire network, but you refer to it as "Mastodon", I can't take you seriously. It goes to show that you're completely unaware of there even being a Fediverse beyond Mastodon. Either that, or you want the Fediverse to only be Mastodon.
If you use the phrase "Mastodon and the Fediverse", I can't take you seriously either. Clearly, not only don't you really know anything about the Fediverse outside of Mastodon, but you don't even really care for anything that isn't Mastodon.
The network is called "Fediverse", and it is far from being only Mastodon.
"Mastodon" should only refer to that particular part of the Fediverse in contrast to e.g. Pleroma, Misskey, Friendica, Pixelfed, PeerTube, Funkwhale, Owncast and all the rest of the Fediverse.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse The readability aspect is interesting. It directly contradicts those who say that if text is illegible in the image, it doesn't have to or even mustn't be transcribed. And I myself go as far as transcribing text that's so tiny that it's invisible.
But: Information that is not available in the image and not in the actual post either must never go into the alt-text!
Not everyone can access alt-text. Not everyone is on a phone. Not all possible frontends support alt-text. And some people are phyiscally incapable of accessing alt-text, for example, because they can't use a pointing device such as a mouse or a trackball.
If information is only available in the alt-text and nowhere else, it is completely inaccessible and therefore lost to a whole lot of people.
Thus, explanations must always go somewhere where they can access them, ideally into the post.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #A11y #Accessibility
idk why fedi instances don't just add a bridge, lazy af
This has nothing to do with laziness.
For the vast majority of people in the Fediverse, including developers, the Fediverse == ActivityPub and only ActivityPub. For many, the Fediverse == Mastodon and maybe stuff that was bolted onto Mastodon after the fact. If there's another protocol they've even only heard of, it's Bluesky. So if they develop any new Fediverse server application, it's always a) ActivityPub only and b) being built against Mastodon with no regards to anything else in the Fediverse.
Almost nobody knows that anything in the Fediverse supports more than one protocol. That's largely unheard of and largely unimaginable. A poll has revealed that three out of four Fediverse users have never even heard the name "Hubzilla". Most of those who have heard of Friendica without having used it think it's another Mastodon-like ActivityPub-only Twitter clone, but with no character limit, because what else could it possibly be in a Mastodon-dominated Fediverse
This also means that Fediverse users and Fediverse developers alike don't know which Fediverse projects are able to connect to diaspora*. Hell, the vast majority of Fediverse users and developers have never even heard of diaspora* itself!
And then there's the ActivityPub-centricism. In the opinion of most, ActivityPub is the only protocol that's even tolerated in the Fediverse. Sure, why not connect diaspora* to the Fediverse But in order for this, diaspora* must add ActivityPub support. Full stop.
For in practice, the most wide-spread definition of the Fediverse is "everything that can connect to Mastodon". But before Mastodon itself adds another protocol and actively reaches out to something that isn't Mastodon, it adds full HTML rendering support. And before Mastodon adds full HTML rendering support, hell freezes over.
Besides, why would the Mastodon devs add features to something which they have the balls to declare "the only feature-complete Fediverse project" straight into the face of a Hubzilla veteran (This very thing has actually happened to me, and I've got witnesses. Luckily for this guy, I couldn't be bothered to list up Hubzilla features and ask him whether Mastodon has them.)
skimming the code it looked like friendica just has one Diaspora.php file that handles all of that
Both Friendica and Hubzilla don't have support for additional protocols built into their cores in various places. It's always an add-on, it's always optional, and it's pretty much always off by default for new accounts/channels. So why split across a whole bunch of files what can just as well be put into one Besides, I don't know if Friendica and/or Hubzilla supports add-ons that are spread across multiple PHP files.
and honestly i think php is better suited for a decentralized social network than ruby or node, easy to learn and modify etc.
And more lightweight. Hubzilla actually produces less server load per user than Mastodon. And Hubzilla has vastly more features than Mastodon.
I have a Hubzilla account but honestly not the biggest fan of their frontend
Well, a feature monster like Hubzilla can barely be harnessed with a Twitter-like, easy-peasy UI. Could be one reason, albeit neither the only one nor the most important one, why nobody has ever even tried to develop a Hubzilla phone app that puts Hubzilla behind an all-new mobile UI. Such an app would be more complex than K-9 Mail.
That being said, Scott M. Stolz is working on brand-new general-purpose themes, although the first one will be based on Redbasic, and is working on brand-new special-purpose themes.
and i don't think i ever figured out how to use most of it lol
Der Pepe (Hubzilla) is currently .
i've been messing around with implementing my own minimal zot/AP server in PHP
Especially now that Zot6 is so firmly tied to Hubzilla, I don't think it's a good idea to build another project on on Zot from scratch. You'd have to make everything compatible with Hubzilla and keep it compatible with Hubzilla. Zot/Nomad is not a W3C standard. There's no committee behind it. The old Zot is maintained by the Hubzilla maintainers and tied to Hubzilla, Nomad is still maintained by Mike Macgirvin and tied to (streams).
Besides, a server application that has both Zot6 and ActivityPub firmly and permanently built into the core is an even stupider idea. On Hubzilla, ActivityPub is deactivated on new channels by default for a very good reason. The reason is because ActivityPub, like all other non-nomadic protocols, still interferes with Zot's nomadic identity.
Even if, for some reason, you decided to build your server app in a more traditional way, non-nomadic with no channels and the identity firmly tied to the account, I wouldn't entirely rule out interference. Besides, if you decide to go non-nomadic, where's the point in using Zot and constantly having to keep pace with Hubzilla then Permissions Ask Mike how he did them on Forte, using only ActivityPub.
but would certainly be easier to just make a new frontent for either HZ or Streams and maybe build some addons
The original very idea behind (streams) was for developers to fork it (ideally soft-fork it), build something on top of it and give it a name and a brand.
Remember that it isn't named "Streams", it's named nothing, it doesn't have a name, it doesn't have a brand identity. That's fully intentional, partly to spite brand worshippers, partly so that those who'd fork (streams) wouldn't have to rename it because it doesn't have a name to change to begin with.
It's another story that nobody has ever forked (streams) into a new project, and instead, people kept developing all-new, ActivityPub-only server apps against Mastodon or forking Mastodon's underwhelming and outdated code or Misskey's inherently messed-up code.
BTW Has someone updated the Chess Addon last i checked they broke it, only chess is a huge thing and if you can chess over zot all types of gaming possibilities open up
and thus removed from installations for a very good reason: In 2020, Hubzilla was upgraded to Zot6 which had been developed on Osada and Zap. But that would have required the Chess app to undergo quite a lot of changes. And the devs couldn't see how the Chess-specific activities could possibly be mapped to Zot6.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #diaspora* #Zot #Nomad #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams)
or Hubilla and how they used ActivityPub just as a 'transport layer" and use their Zot protocol for things like identity management and migration
Hubzilla doesn't even need ActivityPub. Hubzilla was the first to implement it, two months before Mastodon, but it doesn't depend on it. Zot has always taken care of everything.
ActivityPub is an add-on and only there for Hubzilla to be able to connect to ActivityPub-using servers. It's optional for both hubs and channels. For channels, it's turned off by default like all other non-nomadic bidirectional protocols because it interferes with nomadic identity.
Even (streams), which has ActivityPub built into the core and on by default on new channels, doesn't depend on it because Nomad takes care of everything. Mike Macgirvin's first creation that depends on ActivityPub is Forte from about two and a half months ago because it has tossed all other protocols out.
And still, both Hubzilla and (streams) take the ActivityPub standard plus FEPs more seriously than Mastodon.
CC:
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #ActivityPub #Fediverse #Mastodon #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte
Decided to do a post on my Dreamwidth, as I did not feel like breaking into individual entries to read it here.
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Last updated: 2024-11-18
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