Mastodon vs. Friendica
Und gleichzeitig sind gefhlt smtliche Alt-Text-Aktivisten genervt davon, wenn man darber reden will, wie Bilder beschrieben werden sollen. Also nicht ob (weil jemand keinen Bock hat, Bilder zu beschreiben), sondern wie (weil jemand die eigenen Bildbeschreibungen bis zum Gehtnichtmehr optimieren und perfektionieren will).
Es heit immer: "Nicht drber labern, einfach machen!"
Aber wie zum Geier soll ich wissen, da meine Bildbeschreibungen etwas taugen, wenn nicht nur Blinde und Sehbehinderte, sondern ganz besonders und allzuvorderst die Alt-Text-Aktivisten sich strikt weigern, mir zu erklren, wie eine gute Bildbeschreibung auszusehen hat Was da die Mindeststandards gem Mastodon-Kultur sind Oder was ihre eigenen Mindeststandards sind
Ich stecke nun wirklich sehr viel Arbeit und Mhe und Hirnschmalz und vor allem Zeit in jede meiner Bildbeschreibungen. Meine eigenen Bilder beschreibe ich sogar jeweils zweimal, im Alt-Text und dann noch einmal sehr viel detaillierter im Post selbst mit Erklrungen und smtlichen Text-Transkripten. Ein einziges Bild kann mich Stunden oder Tage kosten, und das ist kein Witz.
Woher soll ich wissen, ob das, was ich da schreibe, ausreichend ist oder tatschlich noch nicht ausreichend oder malos bertrieben, wenn ich weder Feedback erhalte noch irgendjemand mit mir darber reden will
Statt dessen werde ich sowohl geblockt, wenn meine Bildbeschreibungen nicht optimal sind (mglicherweise auch, weil meine Bildposts dazu neigen, einige zigtausend Zeichen lnger zu sein als das per Mastodon-Kultur vorgegebene fediverseweite Limit von 500 Zeichen), als auch, wenn ich darber reden will, wie ich es richtig machen soll.
Und trotzdem wird von mir erwartet, da ich das wei. Ohne mir eine Chance zu geben, das in Erfahrung zu bringen.
Das "einfach" in "einfach machen" ist Bldsinn, wenn ber einem das Damoklesschwert der persnlichen Angriffe und des massiven Reichweitenverlusts schwebt, wenn man es falsch macht.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # One thing you should really avoid is line breaks in alt-text.
That's because alt-texts outside the Fediverse are always short and concise and not the extensive descriptions that are common on Mastodon. Hence, screen readers expect alt-texts to always be one paragraph each. Whenever there's a new paragraph, at least some of them think it's a new alt-text for a new image.
This is bad because screen readers tend to announce images and therefore start alt-texts by speaking, "Graphic" or something like that. But if your alt-text has multiple paragraphs, the screen reader will say, "Graphic," at the beginning of each paragraph.
# # # # # # # # # # # # Sounds like basically behaves like the Mastodon pre-4.4 Web interface in fact, I think I've read somewhere that it's still partly stuck on a Mastodon 3 level.
One issue with this is that the Mastodon pre-4.4 Web interface didn't automatically blur images in posts that have CWs. Instead, when you have images in a CW'd post, Mastodon flags the images sensitive. Mastodon's Web interface blurs images that are flagged sensitive, and I guess so does Mona.
However, most of the rest of the Fediverse doesn't support this Mastodon-specific, non-standard sensitive flag for images. In CW'd image posts from somewhere else than Mastodon, the images will generally not be flagged sensitive, Mastodon won't blur them, and Mona probably won't either.
For example, here on Hubzilla, I could make people click up to four times before they see an image. First, if they have NSFW installed, they have to click an automatically generated content warning. Next, they have to click a summary plus Mastodon-style content warning. Then they have to click a spoiler tag that reveals the blanked-out image. Lastly, they have to click the image to unblank it.
Mastodon/Mona users, on the other hand, will see the very same image below the very same post immediately, un-CW'd, unblurred.
This is why I won't go back to posting images here on Hubzilla and stick to (streams) for that: (streams) can set the Mastodon-specific sensitive flag by adding one or two particular hashtags to a post. At least I hope it still does that.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # The whole alt-text would be a bad idea. Especially if showing the whole alt-text under each image is set to on by default or even hard-coded for everyone's "convenience".
Some of us write or have written extremely long alt-texts. All of my most recent alt-texts are either precisely 1,500 characters or only a very few characters short of it. I'll have to limit my future alt-texts to only 512 characters, but I won't shorten my existing ones. And in the rare case that someone decided to boost one of my image posts to your timeline, you'd have a massive block of 1,500 characters of alt-text underneath each image. On a comparatively small iPhone display even (desktop user here).
Do you really want that
By the way: How does handle images in posts with CWs Does it hide them behind the CW like Mastodon's Web interface since 4.4.0 Or does it keep them visible underneath the CW'd post like Mastodon's Web interface before 4.4.0 Because in the latter case, I couldn't possibly CW long alt-texts away (while I already CW my long posts away whenever I can, namely whenever they aren't replies).
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Es ist eben eine auf Mastodon weitverbreitete Fehlannahme, da Mastodons Kultur die Kultur des ganzen Fediverse ist. Und da Mastodons ungeschriebene Regeln im ganzen Fediverse gelten. Und falls nicht, dann hat dieser Zustand aber schnellstmglich hergestellt zu werden.
Das liegt auch daran, da auf Mastodon kaum jemand wei, inwiefern das Nicht-Mastodon-Fediverse anders ist und anders funktioniert als Mastodon. Oder auch, da es einige Sachen schon deutlich lnger im Fediverse gibt als Mastodon. Da das Fediverse eben nicht mit Mastodon anfing und auch nicht alles, was nicht Mastodon ist, als Extra nachtrglich an Mastodon drangeklebt worden ist.
Im Grunde sind sich nur diejenigen dessen bewut, die schon lange hauptschlich oder ausschlielich etwas anderes benutzen als Mastodon. Vor allem die, die eben nicht von Twitter ber Mastodon ins Fediverse gekommen sind.
Das lt sich sehr gut illustrieren im Vergleich zwischen Mastodon und Friendica. Mastodon ist eine puristische, spartanische Microblogging-Anwendung und versucht, ein Twitter-Klon zu sein. Friendica ist eine Social-Networking-Anwendung und Facebook-Alternative und gleichzeitig eine vollwertige Blogginganwendung mit allen Schikanen.
Mastodon ist von 2016. Friendica ist von 2010, gut fnfeinhalb Jahre lter als Mastodon. Als Mastodon startete, hat es sich mit Friendica verbunden und nicht umgekehrt.
Friendicas Kultur ist ungefhr so alt wie Friendica selbst. Mastodons Kultur, wie sie heute existiert, wurde dagegen geprgt Mitte 2022 von denjenigen, die im Februar und Mrz von Twitter abgehauen sind, nachdem Elon Musk angekndigt hatte, es zu bernehmen.
Ein Killerfeature von Friendica war immer, da es sich mit allen mglichen und unmglichen Sachen verbinden kann. Mit dem ganzen Fediverse sowieso. Aber auch mit diaspora*, mit Tumblr, mit Libertree, theoretisch sogar mit Twitter, frher tatschlich sogar mit Facebook, per E-Mail, crossposten nach WordPress geht auch und so weiter und so fort. Damit wirbt Friendica ja auch, da das geht.
So war es schon immer ein bombenfester Teil von Friendicas Kultur, da man Kontakte berall hat. Im ganzen Fediverse und ber das Fediverse hinaus.
Im krassen Gegensatz dazu steht Mastodon, wo buchstblich jeder, aber auch wirklich jeder Neuling lernt, da es nur mit sich selbst verbunden ist. Es gibt Mastodon-Nutzer, die erst nach Jahren erfahren, da das Fediverse nicht nur Mastodon ist und Mastodon mit noch ganz anderen Sachen verbunden ist.
Je lnger es aber dauert, bis man das wei, desto mehr gewhnt man sich an ein reines Mastodon-Fediverse. Desto schwerer fllt es, sich an ein Nicht-nur-Mastodon-Fediverse zu gewhnen. Desto eher will man sogar wirklich ein reines Mastodon-Fediverse haben.
Blderweise wurde Mastodons aktuelle Kultur aufgebaut von Leuten, die selbst zu der Zeit glaubten, das Fediverse sei nur Mastodon. Sonst wre Mastodons Kultur nmlich fr den Rest des Fediverse offener. Und so ist in Mastodons Kultur quasi eingebrannt, da alles, was nicht Mastodon ist, ein ungewollter Eindringling ist.
Der Groteil der Mastodon-Nutzer glaubt, das Fediverse fing mit Mastodon an. Und so verhalten sie sich auch. Wir waren zuerst da, Mastodon war zuerst da, also ist Mastodon der Standard.
Die Friendica-Nutzer dagegen wissen, da Friendica schon lange vor Mastodon da war. Viele Friendica-Nutzer sind ja selbst schon seit Zeiten dabei, als es Mastodon noch gar nicht gab. Folglich weigern sie sich, Mastodon als Ursprung des Fediverse anzuerkennen. Die meisten drften nmlich wissen, da der Ursprung des Fediverse StatusNet von 2008 war. Damit war Friendica brigens auch verbunden.
Anderes Beispiel: Mastodon hat ein festgelegtes Zeichenlimit von 500. Jeder Mastodon-Neuling gewhnt sich da erstmal dran. Wenn man dann erstmals ber einen Beitrag stolpert, der lnger ist, dann ist das zutiefst (ver)strend, vor allem, wenn man die offizielle Mastodon-Smartphone-App benutzt, die lange Beitrge nicht einklappen kann.
Folglich ist es auf Mastodon in die Kultur eingebrannt, da Beitrge mit ber 500 Zeichen schlecht sind. Und es ist eine ungeschriebene Regel auf Mastodon, Beitrge, die ber 500 Zeichen lang sind, in Threads zu zerschneiden. Zugegeben, die meisten Mastodon-Nutzer haben eh keine andere Wahl.
Auf Friendica ist das ganz anders. Da gab es nie ein definiertes Zeichenlimit. Da sind die Leute es seit jeher gewohnt, soviel auf einmal zu posten, wie sie wollen und mssen. Folglich gehen einigen die zerschnipselten Beitrge von Mastodon gehrig auf die Nerven, weil das den Leseflu strt.
Und so stehen auf der einen Seite Mastodon-Nutzer, die Friendica-Nutzer dazu zwingen wollen, Beitrge, die lnger als 500 Zeichen sind, zu zerschneiden. Auf der anderen Seite stehen Friendica-Nutzer, die zum einen genau das eben nicht ntig haben und zum anderen Mastodon-Nutzern empfehlen, wenn sie fters mal etwas Langes zu posten haben, an einen Ort im Fediverse umzuziehen, wo sie mehr als nur 500 Zeichen haben. Aber sie sollen um Gottes Willen aufhren mit dieser Schnipselei.
Noch ein Beispiel: das CW-Feld. Allgemeine Annahme auf Mastodon ist, da es das so im ganzen Fediverse gibt und es somit auch Teil der Kultur im ganzen Fediverse ist, da vor potentiell verstrenden Inhalten zu warnen. Und das Feld im brigen auch nur dafr zu nutzen.
Mastodon hat dieses Feld seit 2017.
Friendica hat dieses Feld seit 2010, seit es an den Start ging.
Aber: Auf Friendica war das nie ein CW-Feld. Auf Friendica war es schon immer und ist es heute noch ein Feld fr Zusammenfassungen. Warum Zusammenfassungen Weil es ziemlich viel Sinn ergibt, ein Feld fr Zusammenfassungen zu haben, wenn man ber 16 Millionen Zeichen auf einmal posten kann.
Und so ist in Friendicas Kultur eingebrannt, da dieses Feld fr Zusammenfassungen genutzt wird. Und nur fr Zusammenfassungen.
Auf Mastodon ist genau dieser Sachverhalt derweil total unbekannt, auch weil kaum jemand auf Mastodon berhaupt wei, da Friendica existiert, und von denen, die das wissen, die meisten sich nicht vorstellen knnen, da Friendica mit Mastodon verbunden ist. Also glaubt man, das Feld sei von Mastodon erfunden worden.
Aber wieso nur fr Zusammenfassungen Gibt's auf Friendica keine Inhaltswarnungen
Doch. Aber die funktionieren vllig anders. Die werden nicht vom Autor eines Beitrags ausgestellt, sondern beim Leser vollautomatisch per Textfilter erzeugt. Auch das ist bombenfest in Friendicas Kultur eingebrannt, ebenso, da man dann auch im Beitrag entsprechende Schlsselwrter einbauen mu, damit das bei entsprechend sensiblen Lesern auch funktioniert.
brigens: Das kann auch Mastodon. Aber erst seit Oktober 2022, als Mastodons Kultur und Mastodons ungeschriebene Regeln schon in Stein gemeielt waren. Und im brigen wissen 99% von Mastodons Nutzern nicht, da Mastodon das kann, und mindestens 80% nicht, da Mastodon berhaupt Filter hat.
Folge:
Solange es Mastodon-Nutzer gibt, die das Fediverse fr nur Mastodon halten, solange es Mastodon-Nutzer gibt, die Mastodon als alleiniges Ma aller Dinge ansehen, solange Mastodon-Nutzern beim Onboarding nichts vom brigen Fediverse erzhlt wird (der Einfachheit halber, oder weil diejenigen, die sie einladen, es auch nicht besser wissen), solange Mastodon-Nutzer Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzer systematisch diskriminieren und gleichzeitig vehement abstreiten, irgendjemanden zu diskriminieren, solange wird der Frust nicht abklingen.
Jetzt kann man natrlich als reiner Mastodon-Nutzer, basiert und mastodongepillt, ankommen und sagen: "Die Lsung liegt doch auf der Hand! Friendica mu mehr wie Mastodon werden. Nur 500 Zeichen, Zusammenfassungsfeld in CW-Feld umbenennen, dieses blde NSFW abschaffen, alle Protokolle auer ActivityPub rausschmeien, und alles wird gut!"
Tja, dann kommen aber die Friendica-Veteranen. Qua "wir waren schon gut fnfeinhalb Jahre vor euch hier" und qua "Friendica ist objektiv die bessere und leistungsfhigere Software und Mastodon eine knstlich funktionsreduzierte Krcke, die sich nur durch Propaganda, sektenmige Gehirnwsche ihrer Nutzer und vorstzliche Inkompatibilitt mit dem brigen Fediverse halten kann". Und sie sagen: "Mastodon sollte viel eher sein bldes Zeichenlimit abschaffen, das CW-Feld in das umbenennen, was es schon auf Identi.ca war, Untersttzung fr in sich geschlossene Konversationen einfhren, Gruppen nach etablierten Fediverse-Standards einfhren, volles HTML-Rendering zulassen bis hin zu beliebig vielen eingebetteten Bildern mitten im Beitrag und auch dieses brsige Folgen-und-Gefolgtwerden durch standardmig gegenseitige Verbindungen ersetzen. Dann wre das ein Gewinn fr das ganze Fediverse!"
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Find the latitdue and longitude of any place Since you wanted criticism and advice, here it is. I'll add links to the corresponding pages in my wiki if there are any. (In case you're unaware: Parts of the Fediverse can do embedded links without a URL in plain sight. So if it has a different colour from the rest of the comment here, it's a link even if it isn't a URL.)
First of all: Do mention any medium that isn't a digital photograph. But do not say if something is a digital photograph. It's generally considered the default medium on the Web, so mentioning it is redundant and needlessly inflates your alt-text.
Next: Yes, they make your alt-texts look prettier. But those who rely on alt-text can't see them anyway.
Besides, most expect alt-texts to be only one paragraph. They generally start reading out alt-text with something like, "Graphic." If there are multiple paragraphs, they'll take each paragraph for a separate alt-text and start reading out each one with, "Graphic."
Again, yes, they make your alt-texts look prettier. But, again, those who rely on alt-text can't see them anyway.
Besides, these quotes are not generally accepted as standard elements in alt-text. Hence, many frontends don't support them, not even in the Fediverse. Mastodon does.
But Hubzilla, for example, which is actually older than Mastodon (and which I'm commenting from right now), doesn't. Hubzilla keeps these quotes in alt-text as their HTML entity:
So, for example, you have this alt-text:
Hubzilla renders it as:
Now, let's assume someone blind uses Hubzilla with a screen reader. The screen reader will read your alt-text out loud like this:
And then there are (streams) and Forte. The former is a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork) of Hubzilla by Hubzilla's own creator, the latter is a fork of (streams) by the same guy. These two internally use this very same quotation mark as an alt-text delimiter. This means that once they hit a quotation mark in an alt-text, they assume it marks the end of the alt-text.
Hence, they render your above alt-text like this:
And they continue right after the end of your alt-text while completely ignoring the rest of your alt-text.
While we're at it: If you really want to make sure that screen readers pronounce your acronyms correctly, write them in a way that ensures just that.
Let's take "BASIC" as an example. Some screen readers may pronounce it, "basic" because they recognise it as a word. Some screen readers may pronounce it, "bee ay ess eye see" because they spell everything in all caps out.
If you want all of them to read it out as a word, don't write it in all caps.
In contrast, if you wanted all of them to spell it out, you'd have to insert full stops like so: "B.A.S.I.C."
These are two exceptions of the rule that text must always be transcribed 100% verbatim.
Explanations must always go into the post text where everyone can access them.
Why Because . Often due to physical disabilities. In order to access alt-text, at least one sufficiently working hand is required. And there are more than enough cases in which people do not have sufficiently working hands at all.
Also, GNU/Linux users who run graphical browsers on minimalist window managers such as i3wm that are entirely controlled by keyboard can't access alt-text either. They'd have to move a mouse cursor either to the little "ALT" button or until it hovers above the image. But they don't have mice or other pointing devices. They control their machines entirely by keyboard.
But if all these people can't access your alt-text, they can't read your explanations. At all. They're lost to these people.
Lastly: Keep your alt-texts and image descriptions strictly neutral. Alt-text is no place for personal opinions.
CC:
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Ganz so straight-forward wie auf Mastodon ist es aber auch nicht. Und Friendica hat auch keine so vorbildlich detaillierte Dokumentation wie Hubzilla (wo das noch schwieriger ist).
Dazu kommt, da Friendica immer noch zu einer gewissen Isolation von Mastodon neigt. Das wiederum kommt auch daher, da stndig Mastodon-Nutzer Friendica-Nutzer dazu zwingen wollen, Friendicas Kultur ber Bord zu werfen und statt dessen Mastodons Kultur anzunehmen. Wohlgemerkt, Friendicas Kultur ist mehr als ein Jahrzehnt lter als Mastodons Kultur und sehr viel besser an Friendicas Features angepat als Mastodons Kultur.
Wenn jetzt also ein Mastodon-Nutzer ankommt und von einem Friendica-Nutzer z. B. verlangt...
Folglich wird der Friendica-Nutzer noch weniger davon mitbekommen, was auf Mastodon abgeht.
Kann man machen. Dann riskiert man aber, auf den Deckel zu kriegen, weil es im Alt-Text keine adquate (= garantiert handgeschriebene, 100% akkurate und hinreichend detaillierte) Bildbeschreibung gibt.
Frher war es ja auch noch so, da Mastodon hinter CWs nur den Post-Text verbarg, nicht aber das Bild. Wenn man ein Bild gepostet hat mit CW, dann konnten Mastodon-Nutzer nicht auf den ersten Blick sehen, da im Post eine Bildbeschreibung ist. Damit gerechnet haben sie auch nicht, weil sie sich nicht vorstellen konnten, da jemand eher die 500 Zeichen im "Trt" fr die Bildbeschreibung nimmt als die 1500 im Alt-Text, und auch nicht gesehen haben, da der Post von Friendica kam und eben nicht von Mastodon. Also gingen sie davon aus: Wenn im Alt-Text keine Bildbeschreibung ist, dann ist da gar keine.
Inzwischen hat Mastodon das fr sein Web-Frontend gendert. Ich glaube aber, es drfte immer noch etliche Smartphone-Apps geben, die Bilder nicht hinter CWs verstecken.
Genau deswegen beschreibe ich meine eigenen Bilder auch immer zweimal: einmal sehr umfangreich im Post selbst und dann noch einmal zustzlich im Alt-Text. Dabei reize ich im Alt-Text die 1500 Zeichen aus, die Mastodon bietet (weil Mastodon lngere Alt-Texte abschneidet), auch wenn ich selbst im Grunde auch fr Alt-Texte kein Zeichenlimit habe (ich selbst bin auf Hubzilla und poste meine Bilder auf (streams)). Im Post brauche ich mir ber Zeichenlimits keinen Kopf zu machen.
Gut, eigentlich mte ich die Alt-Texte auf 512 Zeichen beschrnken, weil Misskey und die Forkeys lngere Alt-Texte gnzlich lschen. Aber zumindest Misskey schneidet lange Posts bei ca. 8000 Zeichen ab, und die Forkeys werden hnlich funktionieren. Das heit, *key-Nutzer werden so oder so meine Posts an der Quelle lesen, denn 8000 Zeichen reichen mir nicht fr einen Bildpost (auer vielleicht, wenn es ein Meme ist).
CC:
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # This is simply because little is written about Forte on the Web.
However, I was there when Forte was born back in September, 2024. I was on (streams) back then. Mike Macgirvin had implemented FEP-ef61 in the "nomad" branch of the streams repository a few months ago to test it. When he was confident enough, he merged the "nomad" branch into the regular "dev" branch. In July, 2024, he merged the "dev" branch into the "release" branch, causing the FEP-ef61 implementation to be rolled out to daily-driver (streams) servers.
However, it was a maze of Nomad and Zot6 and non-nomadic ActivityPub and FEP-ef61 identities for everything that boiled over. (streams) wouldn't federate with anything anymore, not even with itself. My two still existing (streams) channels, and , were both affected by this. They were amongst the very first (streams) channels created on an account with FEP-ef61 DID support.
Mike would spend half of the summer trying to figure out what had happened and how to fix it. Even while (streams) was still broken, Forte was born in August, 2024 when Mike forked the streams repository and ripped all traces of Nomad and Zot6 support out, probably also in order to get rid of the corresponding IDs and facilitate debugging.
This means that FEP-ef61, which had literally caused this whole mayhem and which has to be considered responsible for Forte's very existence, was a) implemented in the streams repository when it was forked into Forte and b) not removed from Forte post-fork. It would not have made any sense to remove FEP-ef61 when one reason why Forte was made at that point in history was in order to debug FEP-ef61.
Sidenotes: Mike managed to fix (streams). This whole issue burned him out so much that he officially quit developing Fediverse software, effective September 1st, 2024, midnight. He still carries on working on both (streams) and Forte because nobody else does, what with how many people even use them.
# # # # # # # # # # # # Makes me wonder where I'd end up:
Guess that'd be lawful evil or something.
# # # # # # # # # # #What if I switched from describing my original images twice...
..."short" (still fairly long) alt-text + fully detailed long description in the post text...
...to describing them three times...
...same as above, but I'd keep these two descriptions to myself, just in case, plus an actually short alt-text (512 characters or fewer for Misskey compatibility or even 200 characters or fewer) that'd be the only description that I'd publish right away
There would be no excessively long alt-text (at least not right away). There would be no tens of thousands of characters of long description in the post (at least not right away) although I couldn't guarantee that the post won't exceed 500 characters.
At the same time, this would give me "notes" that I could source if someone asked me to describe some detail. And if some Mastodon alt-text activist came and complained that my description is lacking all over, I could replace the short alt-text with the already existing long alt-text and add the long description to the post text right away.
Granted, my workload would increase some more. Most of it might end up for nothing most of the time. And nobody would get text transcripts unless they'd ask for them because I couldn't possibly fit them all into just a few hundred characters.
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On the one hand, I feel a great pressure to describe and explain everything in advance. That way, nobody would ever have to ask me to describe a detail or explain something. And nobody, not even the most die-hard Mastodon alt-text activists, could say that I'm careless and that I only do the very bare minimum or not even that. There are people out there who are eager to block everyone who doesn't describe their images enough or lecture them or attack them for being lazy.
The last time I've described an image for Hubzilla, I refused to write detailed descriptions for the images within that image. That would have escalated and cost me weeks to describe them all because I'd also have had to describe dozens of images within these images and even more images within these images. Mind you, someone who travels to the place I've described couldn't actually see what I'd have described because the images in my image themselves have a limited resolution. But I genuinely felt bad for not describing these images.
Besides, if I only described my original images once, namely in the alt-text, and then briefly and concisely, and if someone came and asked me to describe certain elements at greater detail, I couldn't always do that. Sometimes I couldn't go back to the place shown in the image and take a closer look and write a more detailed description because that place simply doesn't exist anymore, or it has been modified, and it doesn't look like the image anymore. The details that I'd have to take a closer look at are gone.
On the other hand, my experience is also that posting more than 500 characters at once reduces my reach on Mastodon tremendously. I think I must have over 700 or 800 followers, but my reach on Mastodon is similar to that of someone with not even a dozen followers. And I don't think that's because what I post is so uninteresting or because of my rather controversial thoughts about the Fediverse, accessibility in the Fediverse, image descriptions etc.
Basically, I can't possibly post images without risking being sanctioned by anyone.
I've briefly considered putting my long descriptions into separate HTML documents and linking to them. In theory, that would reduce the length of my image posts greatly. However, this is entirely untested. I don't know if it'd work at all, i.e. open the HTML document in someone's browser rather than downloading it to their device as a file. I don't know either if a plain HTML document with no style sheet would be accessible to screen reader users.
What I do know, though, is that Mastodon hates external links with a flaming passion. That's also because the vast majority of Mastodon users is always on phones, using dedicated Mastodon apps. They hate their browser popping open when they tap a link all the same. Also, they tend to distrust external links because the linked documents or pages may not be sufficiently accessible.
Everything would be a whole lot easier if there were Fediverse-wide standards for image descriptions that take the requirements of blind or visually-impaired people into consideration as well as Mastodon's unique culture. If these standards were known to everyone both on Mastodon and in the non-Mastodon Fediverse. If everyone from blind or visually-impaired users to neurodivergent users to fully sighted alt-text activists agreed upon these standards all the same. And if these standards covered extreme edge-cases like mine as well. If there was a generally agreed-upon consensus on a whole lot of questions like:
Worse yet: I've recently found out that none of the things above must be discussed on Mastodon. Ever. You must not discuss that stuff. You must do it. But you must do it right off the bat. For whichever individual definition of "right".
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This means that you can use a whole lot of microblogging server applications with Mastodon clients. You can even use Friendica with some Mastodon clients. But then you're limited to the features which Mastodon has as well because the Mastodon client API doesn't support any features that Mastodon doesn't have. Why should it, after all
At the end of the day, the Mastodon client API is designed and maintained by the Mastodon developers. It's them who decide what it can do and what it can't do. For one, they won't waste their time adding features to it that Mastodon itself doesn't have. Besides, if they did, they'd support Mastodon's direct competition and strengthen their advantages over Mastodon when they could throw rocks into their paths instead like they've always done.
This, by the way, is also one reason why both the developers of Hubzilla and the developer of (streams) and Forte refuse to implement the Mastodon client API. It simply wouldn't cover at least 90% of the features of these server applications, including features which you'll need all the time, everyday. That, and they don't want their software to end up at the mercy of Mastodon's developers and Mastodon's product politics by making it depend on Mastodon's technology. They'd rather have no native mobile app at all (and currently they do).
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Both is neither possible with hashtags elsewhere in the post nor when there's something else than hashtags in the last line.
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The thinking behind this has always been one of these:
Oh, and Mastodon hasn't failed being more open. Mastodon has decided to not be more open. It's a fully intentional design decision and part of Mastodon's scheme to either make the rest of the Fediverse look bad or exclude it from "the Fediverse".
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This is also because next to everyone in the Fediverse who isn't sighted is on Mastodon and only on Mastodon. And Mastodon has no support for groups whatsoever. Discussing things would be much easier if Mastodon had had full-blown group support, either simply compatible with existing Fediverse group solutions or with its own solution that's fully compatible with what else supports groups, already before Musk announced he'd take over Twitter. Then Mastodon's culture would include groups rather than being completely oblivious of groups.
What I know, though, is that blind and visually-impaired Mastodon users are happy to have some alt-texts. On the commercial social platforms, they got nothing. So they generally don't have sky-high demands. In fact, unless it's a matter of life and death, they don't really care how accurate a description is because they can't verify the accuracy anyway. Also, some like a bit of whimsy with their alt-texts.
But I'm rather safe than sorry. Besides, it isn't the blind or visually-impaired people who police alt-texts and image descriptions. Mastodon's alt-text police are fully sighted. And it's them who sanction you and who decide whether you're allowed to have any reach in the Fediverse, based on how you describe your images.
However, due to Mastodon's limitations, the alt-text police don't talk to each other either, nor do they ever talk to anyone who isn't sighted. So everyone enforces different quality standards while believing their standards are the official gold standards.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # The alt-text for the above image post CW: long (over 1,700 characters) View article View summary
If, for reasons that are beyond my control, the image in the post above should not have an alt-text, here is the actual alt-text from the original.
# # # # # # Quote-post of an actual image post of mine, complete with image alt-text and a long image description in the post itself CW: long (over 64,000 characters), quote-post, alt-text meta, image description meta, AI mentioned Artikel ansehen Zusammenfassung ansehen
If you really believe I never describe any of my images, here's a counter-proof: my last post with an actual image here on this Hubzilla channel before I moved my image-posting to (streams). It's from May 16th, 2024. By the way, the image should be embedded within the post, right above the "Image description" headline.
The image has an alt-text of exactly 1,500 characters with as detailed an image description as I could possibly fit into it, and in addition, it has a long image description in the post text itself that measures over 60,000 characters. It has to be the longest description for a single image in the history of the Fediverse. It took me two whole days, morning to evening, to research for and write this image description, and I wrote the alt-text in the morning of the following day. All without using any AI.
Fair warning: The image description is outdated in the ways that dimensions and colours are described, and parts of the explanations may be factually wrong. Besides, I didn't try hard enough to either avoid or explain technical and jargon terms. But I didn't know better back then, and I don't go around and edit all my image descriptions whenever I learn something new.
I could quote-post more image posts with alt-texts and either explanations or full descriptions in the post if this one post doesn't convince you. But this is just about my only image post that has nothing potentially triggering in the image. All the others have potentially triggering eye contact which would end up on older Mastodon versions and probably in many Mastodon apps in plain sight.
RE:
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Es heit immer: "Nicht drber labern, einfach machen!"
Aber wie zum Geier soll ich wissen, da meine Bildbeschreibungen etwas taugen, wenn nicht nur Blinde und Sehbehinderte, sondern ganz besonders und allzuvorderst die Alt-Text-Aktivisten sich strikt weigern, mir zu erklren, wie eine gute Bildbeschreibung auszusehen hat Was da die Mindeststandards gem Mastodon-Kultur sind Oder was ihre eigenen Mindeststandards sind
Ich stecke nun wirklich sehr viel Arbeit und Mhe und Hirnschmalz und vor allem Zeit in jede meiner Bildbeschreibungen. Meine eigenen Bilder beschreibe ich sogar jeweils zweimal, im Alt-Text und dann noch einmal sehr viel detaillierter im Post selbst mit Erklrungen und smtlichen Text-Transkripten. Ein einziges Bild kann mich Stunden oder Tage kosten, und das ist kein Witz.
Woher soll ich wissen, ob das, was ich da schreibe, ausreichend ist oder tatschlich noch nicht ausreichend oder malos bertrieben, wenn ich weder Feedback erhalte noch irgendjemand mit mir darber reden will
Statt dessen werde ich sowohl geblockt, wenn meine Bildbeschreibungen nicht optimal sind (mglicherweise auch, weil meine Bildposts dazu neigen, einige zigtausend Zeichen lnger zu sein als das per Mastodon-Kultur vorgegebene fediverseweite Limit von 500 Zeichen), als auch, wenn ich darber reden will, wie ich es richtig machen soll.
Und trotzdem wird von mir erwartet, da ich das wei. Ohne mir eine Chance zu geben, das in Erfahrung zu bringen.
Das "einfach" in "einfach machen" ist Bldsinn, wenn ber einem das Damoklesschwert der persnlichen Angriffe und des massiven Reichweitenverlusts schwebt, wenn man es falsch macht.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # One thing you should really avoid is line breaks in alt-text.
That's because alt-texts outside the Fediverse are always short and concise and not the extensive descriptions that are common on Mastodon. Hence, screen readers expect alt-texts to always be one paragraph each. Whenever there's a new paragraph, at least some of them think it's a new alt-text for a new image.
This is bad because screen readers tend to announce images and therefore start alt-texts by speaking, "Graphic" or something like that. But if your alt-text has multiple paragraphs, the screen reader will say, "Graphic," at the beginning of each paragraph.
# # # # # # # # # # # # Sounds like basically behaves like the Mastodon pre-4.4 Web interface in fact, I think I've read somewhere that it's still partly stuck on a Mastodon 3 level.
One issue with this is that the Mastodon pre-4.4 Web interface didn't automatically blur images in posts that have CWs. Instead, when you have images in a CW'd post, Mastodon flags the images sensitive. Mastodon's Web interface blurs images that are flagged sensitive, and I guess so does Mona.
However, most of the rest of the Fediverse doesn't support this Mastodon-specific, non-standard sensitive flag for images. In CW'd image posts from somewhere else than Mastodon, the images will generally not be flagged sensitive, Mastodon won't blur them, and Mona probably won't either.
For example, here on Hubzilla, I could make people click up to four times before they see an image. First, if they have NSFW installed, they have to click an automatically generated content warning. Next, they have to click a summary plus Mastodon-style content warning. Then they have to click a spoiler tag that reveals the blanked-out image. Lastly, they have to click the image to unblank it.
Mastodon/Mona users, on the other hand, will see the very same image below the very same post immediately, un-CW'd, unblurred.
This is why I won't go back to posting images here on Hubzilla and stick to (streams) for that: (streams) can set the Mastodon-specific sensitive flag by adding one or two particular hashtags to a post. At least I hope it still does that.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # The whole alt-text would be a bad idea. Especially if showing the whole alt-text under each image is set to on by default or even hard-coded for everyone's "convenience".
Some of us write or have written extremely long alt-texts. All of my most recent alt-texts are either precisely 1,500 characters or only a very few characters short of it. I'll have to limit my future alt-texts to only 512 characters, but I won't shorten my existing ones. And in the rare case that someone decided to boost one of my image posts to your timeline, you'd have a massive block of 1,500 characters of alt-text underneath each image. On a comparatively small iPhone display even (desktop user here).
Do you really want that
By the way: How does handle images in posts with CWs Does it hide them behind the CW like Mastodon's Web interface since 4.4.0 Or does it keep them visible underneath the CW'd post like Mastodon's Web interface before 4.4.0 Because in the latter case, I couldn't possibly CW long alt-texts away (while I already CW my long posts away whenever I can, namely whenever they aren't replies).
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Es ist eben eine auf Mastodon weitverbreitete Fehlannahme, da Mastodons Kultur die Kultur des ganzen Fediverse ist. Und da Mastodons ungeschriebene Regeln im ganzen Fediverse gelten. Und falls nicht, dann hat dieser Zustand aber schnellstmglich hergestellt zu werden.
Das liegt auch daran, da auf Mastodon kaum jemand wei, inwiefern das Nicht-Mastodon-Fediverse anders ist und anders funktioniert als Mastodon. Oder auch, da es einige Sachen schon deutlich lnger im Fediverse gibt als Mastodon. Da das Fediverse eben nicht mit Mastodon anfing und auch nicht alles, was nicht Mastodon ist, als Extra nachtrglich an Mastodon drangeklebt worden ist.
Im Grunde sind sich nur diejenigen dessen bewut, die schon lange hauptschlich oder ausschlielich etwas anderes benutzen als Mastodon. Vor allem die, die eben nicht von Twitter ber Mastodon ins Fediverse gekommen sind.
Mastodon vs. Friendica
Das lt sich sehr gut illustrieren im Vergleich zwischen Mastodon und Friendica. Mastodon ist eine puristische, spartanische Microblogging-Anwendung und versucht, ein Twitter-Klon zu sein. Friendica ist eine Social-Networking-Anwendung und Facebook-Alternative und gleichzeitig eine vollwertige Blogginganwendung mit allen Schikanen.
Mastodon ist von 2016. Friendica ist von 2010, gut fnfeinhalb Jahre lter als Mastodon. Als Mastodon startete, hat es sich mit Friendica verbunden und nicht umgekehrt.
Friendicas Kultur ist ungefhr so alt wie Friendica selbst. Mastodons Kultur, wie sie heute existiert, wurde dagegen geprgt Mitte 2022 von denjenigen, die im Februar und Mrz von Twitter abgehauen sind, nachdem Elon Musk angekndigt hatte, es zu bernehmen.
Wagenburgmentalitt vs. totale Fderation
Ein Killerfeature von Friendica war immer, da es sich mit allen mglichen und unmglichen Sachen verbinden kann. Mit dem ganzen Fediverse sowieso. Aber auch mit diaspora*, mit Tumblr, mit Libertree, theoretisch sogar mit Twitter, frher tatschlich sogar mit Facebook, per E-Mail, crossposten nach WordPress geht auch und so weiter und so fort. Damit wirbt Friendica ja auch, da das geht.
So war es schon immer ein bombenfester Teil von Friendicas Kultur, da man Kontakte berall hat. Im ganzen Fediverse und ber das Fediverse hinaus.
Im krassen Gegensatz dazu steht Mastodon, wo buchstblich jeder, aber auch wirklich jeder Neuling lernt, da es nur mit sich selbst verbunden ist. Es gibt Mastodon-Nutzer, die erst nach Jahren erfahren, da das Fediverse nicht nur Mastodon ist und Mastodon mit noch ganz anderen Sachen verbunden ist.
Je lnger es aber dauert, bis man das wei, desto mehr gewhnt man sich an ein reines Mastodon-Fediverse. Desto schwerer fllt es, sich an ein Nicht-nur-Mastodon-Fediverse zu gewhnen. Desto eher will man sogar wirklich ein reines Mastodon-Fediverse haben.
Blderweise wurde Mastodons aktuelle Kultur aufgebaut von Leuten, die selbst zu der Zeit glaubten, das Fediverse sei nur Mastodon. Sonst wre Mastodons Kultur nmlich fr den Rest des Fediverse offener. Und so ist in Mastodons Kultur quasi eingebrannt, da alles, was nicht Mastodon ist, ein ungewollter Eindringling ist.
Wir waren zuerst da vs. wir waren wirklich zuerst da
Der Groteil der Mastodon-Nutzer glaubt, das Fediverse fing mit Mastodon an. Und so verhalten sie sich auch. Wir waren zuerst da, Mastodon war zuerst da, also ist Mastodon der Standard.
Die Friendica-Nutzer dagegen wissen, da Friendica schon lange vor Mastodon da war. Viele Friendica-Nutzer sind ja selbst schon seit Zeiten dabei, als es Mastodon noch gar nicht gab. Folglich weigern sie sich, Mastodon als Ursprung des Fediverse anzuerkennen. Die meisten drften nmlich wissen, da der Ursprung des Fediverse StatusNet von 2008 war. Damit war Friendica brigens auch verbunden.
500 Zeichen vs. gar kein Limit
Anderes Beispiel: Mastodon hat ein festgelegtes Zeichenlimit von 500. Jeder Mastodon-Neuling gewhnt sich da erstmal dran. Wenn man dann erstmals ber einen Beitrag stolpert, der lnger ist, dann ist das zutiefst (ver)strend, vor allem, wenn man die offizielle Mastodon-Smartphone-App benutzt, die lange Beitrge nicht einklappen kann.
Folglich ist es auf Mastodon in die Kultur eingebrannt, da Beitrge mit ber 500 Zeichen schlecht sind. Und es ist eine ungeschriebene Regel auf Mastodon, Beitrge, die ber 500 Zeichen lang sind, in Threads zu zerschneiden. Zugegeben, die meisten Mastodon-Nutzer haben eh keine andere Wahl.
Auf Friendica ist das ganz anders. Da gab es nie ein definiertes Zeichenlimit. Da sind die Leute es seit jeher gewohnt, soviel auf einmal zu posten, wie sie wollen und mssen. Folglich gehen einigen die zerschnipselten Beitrge von Mastodon gehrig auf die Nerven, weil das den Leseflu strt.
Und so stehen auf der einen Seite Mastodon-Nutzer, die Friendica-Nutzer dazu zwingen wollen, Beitrge, die lnger als 500 Zeichen sind, zu zerschneiden. Auf der anderen Seite stehen Friendica-Nutzer, die zum einen genau das eben nicht ntig haben und zum anderen Mastodon-Nutzern empfehlen, wenn sie fters mal etwas Langes zu posten haben, an einen Ort im Fediverse umzuziehen, wo sie mehr als nur 500 Zeichen haben. Aber sie sollen um Gottes Willen aufhren mit dieser Schnipselei.
CWs vs. Zusammenfassungen plus NSFW
Noch ein Beispiel: das CW-Feld. Allgemeine Annahme auf Mastodon ist, da es das so im ganzen Fediverse gibt und es somit auch Teil der Kultur im ganzen Fediverse ist, da vor potentiell verstrenden Inhalten zu warnen. Und das Feld im brigen auch nur dafr zu nutzen.
Mastodon hat dieses Feld seit 2017.
Friendica hat dieses Feld seit 2010, seit es an den Start ging.
Aber: Auf Friendica war das nie ein CW-Feld. Auf Friendica war es schon immer und ist es heute noch ein Feld fr Zusammenfassungen. Warum Zusammenfassungen Weil es ziemlich viel Sinn ergibt, ein Feld fr Zusammenfassungen zu haben, wenn man ber 16 Millionen Zeichen auf einmal posten kann.
Und so ist in Friendicas Kultur eingebrannt, da dieses Feld fr Zusammenfassungen genutzt wird. Und nur fr Zusammenfassungen.
Auf Mastodon ist genau dieser Sachverhalt derweil total unbekannt, auch weil kaum jemand auf Mastodon berhaupt wei, da Friendica existiert, und von denen, die das wissen, die meisten sich nicht vorstellen knnen, da Friendica mit Mastodon verbunden ist. Also glaubt man, das Feld sei von Mastodon erfunden worden.
Aber wieso nur fr Zusammenfassungen Gibt's auf Friendica keine Inhaltswarnungen
Doch. Aber die funktionieren vllig anders. Die werden nicht vom Autor eines Beitrags ausgestellt, sondern beim Leser vollautomatisch per Textfilter erzeugt. Auch das ist bombenfest in Friendicas Kultur eingebrannt, ebenso, da man dann auch im Beitrag entsprechende Schlsselwrter einbauen mu, damit das bei entsprechend sensiblen Lesern auch funktioniert.
brigens: Das kann auch Mastodon. Aber erst seit Oktober 2022, als Mastodons Kultur und Mastodons ungeschriebene Regeln schon in Stein gemeielt waren. Und im brigen wissen 99% von Mastodons Nutzern nicht, da Mastodon das kann, und mindestens 80% nicht, da Mastodon berhaupt Filter hat.
Folge:
- Mastodon-Nutzer werfen Friendica-Nutzern vor, keine CWs zu setzen und das CW-Feld zu mibrauchen (weil die Friendica-Nutzer das CW-Feld entweder fr Zusammenfassungen oder gar nicht benutzen).
- Friendica-Nutzer werfen Mastodon-Nutzern vor, das Zusammenfassungsfeld fr irgendwelchen Bldsinn zu mibrauchen (weil die Mastodon-Nutzer ihre kryptischen Inhaltswarnungen ins Zusammenfassungsfeld packen).
- Mastodon-Nutzer werfen Friendica-Nutzern vor, unsinnige und/oder zuviele Hashtags zu verwenden (weil die Friendica-Nutzer genau das als Hashtags eintragen, was sie eigentlich ins CW-Feld eintragen sollen).
- Friendica-Nutzer werfen Mastodon-Nutzern vor, keine Schlsselwrter zum Auslsen von NSFW in ihre Beitrge einzubauen (weil die Mastodon-Nutzer gar nicht wissen, da sowas irgendwo im Fediverse existiert).
Solange es Mastodon-Nutzer gibt, die das Fediverse fr nur Mastodon halten, solange es Mastodon-Nutzer gibt, die Mastodon als alleiniges Ma aller Dinge ansehen, solange Mastodon-Nutzern beim Onboarding nichts vom brigen Fediverse erzhlt wird (der Einfachheit halber, oder weil diejenigen, die sie einladen, es auch nicht besser wissen), solange Mastodon-Nutzer Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzer systematisch diskriminieren und gleichzeitig vehement abstreiten, irgendjemanden zu diskriminieren, solange wird der Frust nicht abklingen.
Jetzt kann man natrlich als reiner Mastodon-Nutzer, basiert und mastodongepillt, ankommen und sagen: "Die Lsung liegt doch auf der Hand! Friendica mu mehr wie Mastodon werden. Nur 500 Zeichen, Zusammenfassungsfeld in CW-Feld umbenennen, dieses blde NSFW abschaffen, alle Protokolle auer ActivityPub rausschmeien, und alles wird gut!"
Tja, dann kommen aber die Friendica-Veteranen. Qua "wir waren schon gut fnfeinhalb Jahre vor euch hier" und qua "Friendica ist objektiv die bessere und leistungsfhigere Software und Mastodon eine knstlich funktionsreduzierte Krcke, die sich nur durch Propaganda, sektenmige Gehirnwsche ihrer Nutzer und vorstzliche Inkompatibilitt mit dem brigen Fediverse halten kann". Und sie sagen: "Mastodon sollte viel eher sein bldes Zeichenlimit abschaffen, das CW-Feld in das umbenennen, was es schon auf Identi.ca war, Untersttzung fr in sich geschlossene Konversationen einfhren, Gruppen nach etablierten Fediverse-Standards einfhren, volles HTML-Rendering zulassen bis hin zu beliebig vielen eingebetteten Bildern mitten im Beitrag und auch dieses brsige Folgen-und-Gefolgtwerden durch standardmig gegenseitige Verbindungen ersetzen. Dann wre das ein Gewinn fr das ganze Fediverse!"
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Find the latitdue and longitude of any place Since you wanted criticism and advice, here it is. I'll add links to the corresponding pages in my wiki if there are any. (In case you're unaware: Parts of the Fediverse can do embedded links without a URL in plain sight. So if it has a different colour from the rest of the comment here, it's a link even if it isn't a URL.)
First of all: Do mention any medium that isn't a digital photograph. But do not say if something is a digital photograph. It's generally considered the default medium on the Web, so mentioning it is redundant and needlessly inflates your alt-text.
Next: Yes, they make your alt-texts look prettier. But those who rely on alt-text can't see them anyway.
Besides, most expect alt-texts to be only one paragraph. They generally start reading out alt-text with something like, "Graphic." If there are multiple paragraphs, they'll take each paragraph for a separate alt-text and start reading out each one with, "Graphic."
Again, yes, they make your alt-texts look prettier. But, again, those who rely on alt-text can't see them anyway.
Besides, these quotes are not generally accepted as standard elements in alt-text. Hence, many frontends don't support them, not even in the Fediverse. Mastodon does.
But Hubzilla, for example, which is actually older than Mastodon (and which I'm commenting from right now), doesn't. Hubzilla keeps these quotes in alt-text as their HTML entity:
".So, for example, you have this alt-text:
Photo of three books. These are manuals with grey covers, entitled "Owners Manual", "BASIC Users Manual" and "DOS Users Manual" The background is once again my painting table.
Hubzilla renders it as:
Photo of three books. These are manuals with grey covers, entitled "Owners Manual", "BASIC Users Manual" and "DOS Users Manual" The background is once again my painting table.
Now, let's assume someone blind uses Hubzilla with a screen reader. The screen reader will read your alt-text out loud like this:
Photo of three books. These are manuals with grey covers, entitled and quot, Owners Manual and quot, and quot, BASIC Users Manual and quot, and and quot, DOS Users Manual and quot, the background is once again my painting table.
And then there are (streams) and Forte. The former is a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork) of Hubzilla by Hubzilla's own creator, the latter is a fork of (streams) by the same guy. These two internally use this very same quotation mark as an alt-text delimiter. This means that once they hit a quotation mark in an alt-text, they assume it marks the end of the alt-text.
Hence, they render your above alt-text like this:
Photo of three books. These are manuals with grey covers, entitled
And they continue right after the end of your alt-text while completely ignoring the rest of your alt-text.
While we're at it: If you really want to make sure that screen readers pronounce your acronyms correctly, write them in a way that ensures just that.
Let's take "BASIC" as an example. Some screen readers may pronounce it, "basic" because they recognise it as a word. Some screen readers may pronounce it, "bee ay ess eye see" because they spell everything in all caps out.
If you want all of them to read it out as a word, don't write it in all caps.
In contrast, if you wanted all of them to spell it out, you'd have to insert full stops like so: "B.A.S.I.C."
These are two exceptions of the rule that text must always be transcribed 100% verbatim.
Explanations must always go into the post text where everyone can access them.
Why Because . Often due to physical disabilities. In order to access alt-text, at least one sufficiently working hand is required. And there are more than enough cases in which people do not have sufficiently working hands at all.
Also, GNU/Linux users who run graphical browsers on minimalist window managers such as i3wm that are entirely controlled by keyboard can't access alt-text either. They'd have to move a mouse cursor either to the little "ALT" button or until it hovers above the image. But they don't have mice or other pointing devices. They control their machines entirely by keyboard.
But if all these people can't access your alt-text, they can't read your explanations. At all. They're lost to these people.
Lastly: Keep your alt-texts and image descriptions strictly neutral. Alt-text is no place for personal opinions.
CC:
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
7001000 Personen demonstrieren vor dem Parlament in anlsslich des Long-Covid-Awareness-Tags mit MUT fr ein besseres Gesundheitssystem, Versorgung und Anerkennung fr alle Betroffenen von Covid, oder anderen .
Der findet jhrlich am 15.Mrz statt...
Am Welttag der Aufklrung ber - rcken und die Herausforderungen von Long Covid in den Fokus. Sie fordern mehr , und . Der Welttag bietet auerdem eine fr und . wie sollen die strken und zeigen.
Ich meine: So kompliziert ist das mit den Bildbeschreibungen auf Friendica ja auch nicht.
Ganz so straight-forward wie auf Mastodon ist es aber auch nicht. Und Friendica hat auch keine so vorbildlich detaillierte Dokumentation wie Hubzilla (wo das noch schwieriger ist).
Dazu kommt, da Friendica immer noch zu einer gewissen Isolation von Mastodon neigt. Das wiederum kommt auch daher, da stndig Mastodon-Nutzer Friendica-Nutzer dazu zwingen wollen, Friendicas Kultur ber Bord zu werfen und statt dessen Mastodons Kultur anzunehmen. Wohlgemerkt, Friendicas Kultur ist mehr als ein Jahrzehnt lter als Mastodons Kultur und sehr viel besser an Friendicas Features angepat als Mastodons Kultur.
Wenn jetzt also ein Mastodon-Nutzer ankommt und von einem Friendica-Nutzer z. B. verlangt...
- seine "Trts" auf maximal 500 Zeichen zu beschrnken und lngere "Trts" in Threads zu zerschneiden
- das Abstraktfeld (das auf Friendica schon sieben Jahre lnger ein Abstraktfeld ist als auf Mastodon ein CW-Feld) fr CWs zu nutzen und nur fr CWs und nicht fr Zusammenfassungen
- gleichzeitig mit Extra-Hashtags nicht mehr dafr zu sorgen, da Beitrge automatisch hinter leserseitig individuell generierten CWs versteckt werden (was auf Friendica schon zwlf Jahre lnger geht als auf Mastodon und wovon auf Mastodon niemand wei, da es berhaupt geht)
- oder gar das Aussehen der Erwhnungen und Hashtags an den Mastodon-"Standard" anzupassen (was gar nicht geht, weil das auf Friendica hartgecodet ist)
Folglich wird der Friendica-Nutzer noch weniger davon mitbekommen, was auf Mastodon abgeht.
Weil es aber praktisch kein Zeichenlimit auf Friendica gibt, gibt es natrlich auch die super-simple Variante, die Beschreibung einfach in den Text des Posts zu setzen.
Kann man machen. Dann riskiert man aber, auf den Deckel zu kriegen, weil es im Alt-Text keine adquate (= garantiert handgeschriebene, 100% akkurate und hinreichend detaillierte) Bildbeschreibung gibt.
Frher war es ja auch noch so, da Mastodon hinter CWs nur den Post-Text verbarg, nicht aber das Bild. Wenn man ein Bild gepostet hat mit CW, dann konnten Mastodon-Nutzer nicht auf den ersten Blick sehen, da im Post eine Bildbeschreibung ist. Damit gerechnet haben sie auch nicht, weil sie sich nicht vorstellen konnten, da jemand eher die 500 Zeichen im "Trt" fr die Bildbeschreibung nimmt als die 1500 im Alt-Text, und auch nicht gesehen haben, da der Post von Friendica kam und eben nicht von Mastodon. Also gingen sie davon aus: Wenn im Alt-Text keine Bildbeschreibung ist, dann ist da gar keine.
Inzwischen hat Mastodon das fr sein Web-Frontend gendert. Ich glaube aber, es drfte immer noch etliche Smartphone-Apps geben, die Bilder nicht hinter CWs verstecken.
Genau deswegen beschreibe ich meine eigenen Bilder auch immer zweimal: einmal sehr umfangreich im Post selbst und dann noch einmal zustzlich im Alt-Text. Dabei reize ich im Alt-Text die 1500 Zeichen aus, die Mastodon bietet (weil Mastodon lngere Alt-Texte abschneidet), auch wenn ich selbst im Grunde auch fr Alt-Texte kein Zeichenlimit habe (ich selbst bin auf Hubzilla und poste meine Bilder auf (streams)). Im Post brauche ich mir ber Zeichenlimits keinen Kopf zu machen.
Gut, eigentlich mte ich die Alt-Texte auf 512 Zeichen beschrnken, weil Misskey und die Forkeys lngere Alt-Texte gnzlich lschen. Aber zumindest Misskey schneidet lange Posts bei ca. 8000 Zeichen ab, und die Forkeys werden hnlich funktionieren. Das heit, *key-Nutzer werden so oder so meine Posts an der Quelle lesen, denn 8000 Zeichen reichen mir nicht fr einen Bildpost (auer vielleicht, wenn es ein Meme ist).
CC:
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # This is simply because little is written about Forte on the Web.
However, I was there when Forte was born back in September, 2024. I was on (streams) back then. Mike Macgirvin had implemented FEP-ef61 in the "nomad" branch of the streams repository a few months ago to test it. When he was confident enough, he merged the "nomad" branch into the regular "dev" branch. In July, 2024, he merged the "dev" branch into the "release" branch, causing the FEP-ef61 implementation to be rolled out to daily-driver (streams) servers.
However, it was a maze of Nomad and Zot6 and non-nomadic ActivityPub and FEP-ef61 identities for everything that boiled over. (streams) wouldn't federate with anything anymore, not even with itself. My two still existing (streams) channels, and , were both affected by this. They were amongst the very first (streams) channels created on an account with FEP-ef61 DID support.
Mike would spend half of the summer trying to figure out what had happened and how to fix it. Even while (streams) was still broken, Forte was born in August, 2024 when Mike forked the streams repository and ripped all traces of Nomad and Zot6 support out, probably also in order to get rid of the corresponding IDs and facilitate debugging.
This means that FEP-ef61, which had literally caused this whole mayhem and which has to be considered responsible for Forte's very existence, was a) implemented in the streams repository when it was forked into Forte and b) not removed from Forte post-fork. It would not have made any sense to remove FEP-ef61 when one reason why Forte was made at that point in history was in order to debug FEP-ef61.
Sidenotes: Mike managed to fix (streams). This whole issue burned him out so much that he officially quit developing Fediverse software, effective September 1st, 2024, midnight. He still carries on working on both (streams) and Forte because nobody else does, what with how many people even use them.
# # # # # # # # # # # # Makes me wonder where I'd end up:
- 1,400 characters in alt-text describe the image, but with no explanations and with no text transcripts
- Another 100 characters notify the reader of a long, detailed description in the post itself
- 60,000+ characters (you've read that right, over sixty thousand) in the post text describe the image at full detail, even more than full detail because they cover details that aren't even visible at the image's resolution, complete with extensive explanations and 20+ individual text transcripts
- Especially the latter description tries hard to adhere to as many image description rules and guidelines that I've read in the past as possible
- When I learn about another image description rule/guideline, I promptly declare both the alt-text and the long description obsolete
Guess that'd be lawful evil or something.
# # # # # # # # # # #What if I switched from describing my original images twice...
..."short" (still fairly long) alt-text + fully detailed long description in the post text...
...to describing them three times...
...same as above, but I'd keep these two descriptions to myself, just in case, plus an actually short alt-text (512 characters or fewer for Misskey compatibility or even 200 characters or fewer) that'd be the only description that I'd publish right away
There would be no excessively long alt-text (at least not right away). There would be no tens of thousands of characters of long description in the post (at least not right away) although I couldn't guarantee that the post won't exceed 500 characters.
At the same time, this would give me "notes" that I could source if someone asked me to describe some detail. And if some Mastodon alt-text activist came and complained that my description is lacking all over, I could replace the short alt-text with the already existing long alt-text and add the long description to the post text right away.
Granted, my workload would increase some more. Most of it might end up for nothing most of the time. And nobody would get text transcripts unless they'd ask for them because I couldn't possibly fit them all into just a few hundred characters.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
Today's show - Long Go Like Bongo
Extra long show as don't have work so chilling, playing nice records :)
Shabaka End Of Innocence
Shabaka - As the Planets and the Stars Collapse
Shabaka Insecurities
Speakers Corner Quartet Dreaded!
Speakers Corner Quartet Geronimo Blues
Gasslamp Killer Breakthrough Intro
Gasslamp Killer Veins
Gasslamp Killer Holy Mt. Washington
Spoonie Gee Love Rap
The Weather
Sarathy Korwar On A Perfect Day
Sarathy Korwar We Take Things For Granted
Doktor Lond Meets Funky Karlsen Dubs On Me
Horace Andy Midnight Scorcher
Distal Not Cool
Subset The Astrogater
The Dubnihilist October Dawn
Hania Rani 24:03
SCQ, AHC, AMS Musical Medicine
Roger Robinson A Letter To Brixton
Liotia HDYK
Nightmares On Wax Sweeter Still
Quasimoto Jazz Cats
Quasimoto 24/7
inpc - ICE
Prepared Modul Eins
Prepared Modul Zwei
Steph Kailou Today (TAW Dub)
Frequency Television
Orbital Deeper
Adrian Sherwood Spaghetti Best Western
Nisennenmondai - #4
Ohm Unit Refracted
Fabienne Prophecy
On the one hand, I feel a great pressure to describe and explain everything in advance. That way, nobody would ever have to ask me to describe a detail or explain something. And nobody, not even the most die-hard Mastodon alt-text activists, could say that I'm careless and that I only do the very bare minimum or not even that. There are people out there who are eager to block everyone who doesn't describe their images enough or lecture them or attack them for being lazy.
The last time I've described an image for Hubzilla, I refused to write detailed descriptions for the images within that image. That would have escalated and cost me weeks to describe them all because I'd also have had to describe dozens of images within these images and even more images within these images. Mind you, someone who travels to the place I've described couldn't actually see what I'd have described because the images in my image themselves have a limited resolution. But I genuinely felt bad for not describing these images.
Besides, if I only described my original images once, namely in the alt-text, and then briefly and concisely, and if someone came and asked me to describe certain elements at greater detail, I couldn't always do that. Sometimes I couldn't go back to the place shown in the image and take a closer look and write a more detailed description because that place simply doesn't exist anymore, or it has been modified, and it doesn't look like the image anymore. The details that I'd have to take a closer look at are gone.
On the other hand, my experience is also that posting more than 500 characters at once reduces my reach on Mastodon tremendously. I think I must have over 700 or 800 followers, but my reach on Mastodon is similar to that of someone with not even a dozen followers. And I don't think that's because what I post is so uninteresting or because of my rather controversial thoughts about the Fediverse, accessibility in the Fediverse, image descriptions etc.
Basically, I can't possibly post images without risking being sanctioned by anyone.
I've briefly considered putting my long descriptions into separate HTML documents and linking to them. In theory, that would reduce the length of my image posts greatly. However, this is entirely untested. I don't know if it'd work at all, i.e. open the HTML document in someone's browser rather than downloading it to their device as a file. I don't know either if a plain HTML document with no style sheet would be accessible to screen reader users.
What I do know, though, is that Mastodon hates external links with a flaming passion. That's also because the vast majority of Mastodon users is always on phones, using dedicated Mastodon apps. They hate their browser popping open when they tap a link all the same. Also, they tend to distrust external links because the linked documents or pages may not be sufficiently accessible.
Everything would be a whole lot easier if there were Fediverse-wide standards for image descriptions that take the requirements of blind or visually-impaired people into consideration as well as Mastodon's unique culture. If these standards were known to everyone both on Mastodon and in the non-Mastodon Fediverse. If everyone from blind or visually-impaired users to neurodivergent users to fully sighted alt-text activists agreed upon these standards all the same. And if these standards covered extreme edge-cases like mine as well. If there was a generally agreed-upon consensus on a whole lot of questions like:
- Is it okay to have to ask for detailed descriptions of certain details in an image that don't matter within the context of the post
Or do they have to be described right away if there's a chance that someone might be curious about them What if nothing specific in the image matters more within the context than everything else - Is it okay to have to ask for explanations if you don't understand the topic of an image
Or do images about very obscure niche topics have to come with enough explanations for everyone to understand them right away (not counting technical or jargon terms which always have to be either avoided or explained) - So there's the rule that all text within an image must be transcribed verbatim. How far does this rule go
Let's suppose I have a few dozen individual bits of text within an image. Most or all of them are so small that they're unreadable. Some are so tiny that they're actually invisible at the image's resolution. Still, technically speaking, they're there. And: I can read them. Instead of reading them in the image, I can read them at the source. So I can transcribe them all.
What is the rule then
Do I have to transcribe them although they're unreadable because the rule says all text has to be transcribed
Do I have to transcribe them although they're unreadable because not doing so and writing that they're unreadable with no transcript is or may be considered lazy
Do I have to transcribe them because they're unreadable, and even fully sighted people need a transcript to know what's written there
Mustn't I transcribe them because they don't show themselves as text in the image at the image's resolution (if they actually don't)
Mustn't I transcribe them because I must only describe what's visible in the image at the image's resolution to the naked eye
Do I have to transcribe them in my special edge-case in spite of the two above lines because this might be my last and only chance to transcribe them, for they may be gone tomorrow, and I would no longer be able to transcribe them if someone asked for a transcript Or must I remember to keep personal transcripts of all the texts I come across in my images, just in case someone asks for a transcript of a bit of text that no longer exists - Must all text transcripts always be in the alt-text as opposed to an extra long image description in the post Even if I have 20+ individual text transcripts to squeeze into Mastodon's limit of 1,500 characters of Misskey's limit of 512 characters
Or is it okay to- transcribe them in a separate long description in the post text
- not put these transcripts into the alt-text
- mention in the alt-text that there is a long image description in the post, that all the texts in the image are transcribed there, and how exactly to find that long image description
- If any of the above requires a separate long image description because the image description won't fit within the alt-text character limits, is it preferred for the long description to be in a linked document that will open in the browser (given one has the means to write and host such a document, and users on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte do have these means)
Or must the long description be where the image is at all costs Must it be in the post itself for the convenience of app users even if it inflates the post to a hyper-massive length to the inconvenience of Mastodon users
Worse yet: I've recently found out that none of the things above must be discussed on Mastodon. Ever. You must not discuss that stuff. You must do it. But you must do it right off the bat. For whichever individual definition of "right".
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Halifax woman calling out NSH after 7-year wait for MRI appointment
A Halifax woman says enough is enough when it comes to long waittimes in the healthcare system. Jessica Leslie just got a call for her MRI appointment seven years after her specialist sent in a requisition.
LoGeR 3D reconstruction from extremely long videos (DeepMind, UC Berkeley)
Trump says Iran's new leader won't 'last long' without US approval
NEWYou can now listen to US News Hub articles! President Donald Trump said Sunday that Irans new leader is "not going to last long" without U.S. approval as Operation Epic Fury continues into its second week."Hes going to have...
Iran's next supreme leader won't 'last long' without my approval, Trump says
As the Iranians get closer to naming their next supreme leader, President Donald Trump said Sunday the new leader "is not going to last long" if the Iranians don't get his approval first."Hes going to have to get approval from...
The problem with the Mastodon client API is still that it's a Mastodon API. As in, geared towards only one Fediverse server application. In fact, as in, geared towards a very lack-lustre server application that lacks features which have been present in many other places in the Fediverse for years.This means that you can use a whole lot of microblogging server applications with Mastodon clients. You can even use Friendica with some Mastodon clients. But then you're limited to the features which Mastodon has as well because the Mastodon client API doesn't support any features that Mastodon doesn't have. Why should it, after all
At the end of the day, the Mastodon client API is designed and maintained by the Mastodon developers. It's them who decide what it can do and what it can't do. For one, they won't waste their time adding features to it that Mastodon itself doesn't have. Besides, if they did, they'd support Mastodon's direct competition and strengthen their advantages over Mastodon when they could throw rocks into their paths instead like they've always done.
This, by the way, is also one reason why both the developers of Hubzilla and the developer of (streams) and Forte refuse to implement the Mastodon client API. It simply wouldn't cover at least 90% of the features of these server applications, including features which you'll need all the time, everyday. That, and they don't want their software to end up at the mercy of Mastodon's developers and Mastodon's product politics by making it depend on Mastodon's technology. They'd rather have no native mobile app at all (and currently they do).
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Men's Basketball Faces Long Beach State On Senior Night With Big West Title In Play

 Story Links
 
 HONOLULU The University of Hawai'i men's basketball team plays its final ever Big West regular-season game with a championship on the line when it hosts Long Beach State on Saturday Night. Tip-off is 7 pm...
Hashtags should always be at the very bottom of the post in one line that contains nothing else. That way, at least some Mastodon clients can hide the whole line of hashtags and show the hashtags elsewhere. Also, Mastodon's own Web frontend generates actual tags from a hashtag-only bottom line.Both is neither possible with hashtags elsewhere in the post nor when there's something else than hashtags in the last line.
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Long Island college hockey prodigy shattering records at Quinnipiac
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Privacy Commissioner probe finds Loblaw took too long to delete PC Optimum accounts
GATINEAU An investigation by the Privacy Commissioner of Canada has found that Loblaw took too long to address requests from customers who wanted to delete their PC Optimum accounts. The office on Thursday said Loblaw had the mechanism...
The great AP community themselves are way more likely to whip up a Mastodon-only share button than a generic Fediverse share button, and they have done so in the past several times AFAIK.The thinking behind this has always been one of these:
- Fediverse = Mastodon. The Fediverse only consists of Mastodon.
- The Fediverse is more than Mastodon, but only barely. It isn't worth supporting all those teensy-tiny side-projects.
- The Fediverse is more than Mastodon, but it's easier to only support the biggest of all projects than to support all projects.
- People are more likely to be familiar with "Mastodon" than with "Fediverse", both on Mastodon and outside the Fediverse. Nobody would understand a "Fediverse" share button.
Oh, and Mastodon hasn't failed being more open. Mastodon has decided to not be more open. It's a fully intentional design decision and part of Mastodon's scheme to either make the rest of the Fediverse look bad or exclude it from "the Fediverse".
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So long, Rev. Jackson. Details on Fridays homecoming service
Today, let us all remember, as the Rev. Jesse Jackson famously said, to Keep Hope Alive.A homecoming service to honor Jackson, the civil rights icon and two-time presidential candidate who died on Feb. 17, will feature three former presidents...
Coal India surges 3.5% as derivative data signals strong long build-up amid power demand fears
Shares of Coal India Ltd were trading at 450.50 on the NSE at around noon on March 5, 2026, Thursday, up 15.35 or 3.53 per cent from the previous close of 435.15. The stock opened at 440.15, touched an intraday...
Dutch speed skaters Jenning de Boo, Femke Kok dominate Day 1 of long track worlds
Dutch sprinters lit up the opening day of the ISU speed skating world championships on Thursday, as Jenning de Boo and Femke Kok swept the men's and women's 500 metres and 1,000 distances to underline the host nation's dominance in Heerenveen, Netherlands.
dpose plainte pour diffamation contre un groupe d'extrme droite qui a agress verbalement et tent d'intimider une des quipes mobiles de le 5 dcembre 2025, sur le Nord littoral prs de .
Spider-Man: Long Way Home Jonathan Hickman & Adam Kubert Unite Spider-Man, Punisher and Hulk
This June, legendary creators Jonathan Hickman and Adam Kubert team up to tell the grittiest Spider-Man comic story of the modern age, co-starring Punisher and Hulk, in SPIDER-MAN: LONG WAY HOME.
Comic fans...
-man way ome
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See Short Documentary About Making Of SOCIAL DISTORTION's Long-Awaited Eighth Album, 'Born To Kill'
My
That's the trouble: The only way to actually speak with screen reader users is to find them, single them out and mention them personally. And even then they will have to want to discuss these matters with you.This is also because next to everyone in the Fediverse who isn't sighted is on Mastodon and only on Mastodon. And Mastodon has no support for groups whatsoever. Discussing things would be much easier if Mastodon had had full-blown group support, either simply compatible with existing Fediverse group solutions or with its own solution that's fully compatible with what else supports groups, already before Musk announced he'd take over Twitter. Then Mastodon's culture would include groups rather than being completely oblivious of groups.
What I know, though, is that blind and visually-impaired Mastodon users are happy to have some alt-texts. On the commercial social platforms, they got nothing. So they generally don't have sky-high demands. In fact, unless it's a matter of life and death, they don't really care how accurate a description is because they can't verify the accuracy anyway. Also, some like a bit of whimsy with their alt-texts.
But I'm rather safe than sorry. Besides, it isn't the blind or visually-impaired people who police alt-texts and image descriptions. Mastodon's alt-text police are fully sighted. And it's them who sanction you and who decide whether you're allowed to have any reach in the Fediverse, based on how you describe your images.
However, due to Mastodon's limitations, the alt-text police don't talk to each other either, nor do they ever talk to anyone who isn't sighted. So everyone enforces different quality standards while believing their standards are the official gold standards.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # The alt-text for the above image post CW: long (over 1,700 characters) View article View summary
If, for reasons that are beyond my control, the image in the post above should not have an alt-text, here is the actual alt-text from the original.
Digital shaded rendering of the main building of the Universal Campus, a downloadable island location for 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator. The camera position is about three metres or ten feet above the ground. The camera is tilted slightly upward and rotated slightly to the left from the building's longitudinal axis. The futuristic building is over 200 metres long, stretching far into the distance, and its front is about 50 metres wide. Its structure is mostly textured to resemble brushed stainless steel, and almost everything in-between is grey tinted glass. The main entrance of the building in the middle of the front has two pairs of glass doors. They are surrounded by a massive complex geometrical structure, very roughly reminiscent of a vintage video game spacecraft with the front facing upward. Four huge cylindrical pillars carry the roof end, the outer two of which extend beyond it. All are tilted away from the landing area in front of the building and at the same time outward to the sides. The sides of the building are slightly tilted themselves. In the distance, a large geodesic dome rises from the building. There is a large circular area in front of the main entrance as well as several wide paths. They have light concrete textures, and they are lined with low walls with almost white concrete textures. Furthermore, various shrubs and trees decorate the scenery. A more detailed description including explanations and text transcripts can be found in the post.
# # # # # # Quote-post of an actual image post of mine, complete with image alt-text and a long image description in the post itself CW: long (over 64,000 characters), quote-post, alt-text meta, image description meta, AI mentioned Artikel ansehen Zusammenfassung ansehen
If you really believe I never describe any of my images, here's a counter-proof: my last post with an actual image here on this Hubzilla channel before I moved my image-posting to (streams). It's from May 16th, 2024. By the way, the image should be embedded within the post, right above the "Image description" headline.
The image has an alt-text of exactly 1,500 characters with as detailed an image description as I could possibly fit into it, and in addition, it has a long image description in the post text itself that measures over 60,000 characters. It has to be the longest description for a single image in the history of the Fediverse. It took me two whole days, morning to evening, to research for and write this image description, and I wrote the alt-text in the morning of the following day. All without using any AI.
Fair warning: The image description is outdated in the ways that dimensions and colours are described, and parts of the explanations may be factually wrong. Besides, I didn't try hard enough to either avoid or explain technical and jargon terms. But I didn't know better back then, and I don't go around and edit all my image descriptions whenever I learn something new.
I could quote-post more image posts with alt-texts and either explanations or full descriptions in the post if this one post doesn't convince you. But this is just about my only image post that has nothing potentially triggering in the image. All the others have potentially triggering eye contact which would end up on older Mastodon versions and probably in many Mastodon apps in plain sight.
RE:
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Last updated: 2026-03-18
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