. I have news for Mr
So there's that nasty bug on Sharkey that mangles hashtags in messages from Hubzilla and probably also Friendica, (streams) and Forte. They always look like this:
#Hashtag()
Basically, Sharkey receives fully standard Rich Text from Hubzilla. It manages to convert this Rich Text into its own Misskey-Flavored Markdown. But then its Markdown parser does not parse it and leaves the Markdown code visible to everyone. It simply doesn't expect there to be a hashtag character in front of an embedded link because, seriously, who'd ever do that and why!
Friendica would. In fact, Friendica does. It puts the hashtag character in front of the tag, as in outside the tag, as opposed to at the beginning of the tag. It has been doing that since its beginnings in 2010 because it was designed from the get-go to also federate with StatusNet from 2008. And StatusNet does hashtags the same way on its few remaining servers. In fact, so did Identi.ca from 2008, from which StatusNet emerged.
Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte do it, too, because they have inherited it from Friendica.
On StatusNet, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, a hashtag in a message looks like this:
#
Notice how the hashtag character has the same colour as the rest of the post text. And not the same colour as the rest of the hashtag. This means that the hashtag character is not part of the link. (To Mastodon users who don't know this: If something in a "toot" has a different colour from the rest of the "toot", it's a link. Even if it doesn't show a URL in plain sight.)
On , Mastodon, Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, the various Forkeys and a whole lot of other Fediverse software, a hashtag in a message looks like this:
Notice how now the hashtag character has the same colour as the rest of the hashtag. This means that the hashtag character is part of the link.
But why did Identi.ca do hashtags differently from Twitter Because Identi.ca did hashtags before Twitter. AFAIK, when Identi.ca was launched, it had support for hashtags right away. About one year before Twitter.
The hashtag itself had already been invented by the Twitter community. Chris Messina had already codified it in 2007. But it wasn't until 2009 that Twitter actually introduced a technological implementation to support it.
Again, Identi.ca must have had hashtags as early as 2008, and there was no way that Identi.ca creator Evan Prodromou could possibly predict what Twitter would do the following year. So he did what he thought was right and what actually made sense to him.
But nowadays, everybody "knows" that Twitter had the world's very first hashtag implementation ever because nobody, even in the Fediverse, has ever heard of Identi.ca. I mean, the majority of Fediverse users "know" that the Fediverse started with Mastodon.
You know, just like Officer James Barrett "knew" that there is no intelligent life outside Earth only a few minutes before he became Agent J of the Men In Black.
This is also why just about all Fediverse software that does hashtags the Twitter way expects everything to do hashtags the Twitter way. It does not expect hashtags to be done differently. And when a message comes in from Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte with hashtags in it, it fails at varying degrees of ungracefully.
Hashtags with the hashtag character outside the link are older than hashtags with the hashtag character inside that they're not only completely unexpected, that they cause software to malfunction, but the same software often can't even handle that malfunction. It's a miracle that the Friendica/Hubzilla family doesn't cause Fediverse servers to crash or even server databases to go corrupt by simply sending hashtags.
Mastodon used to be an exception of sorts, but only because, before version 4.0 from October, 2022, its HTML "sanitiser" actually ripped out any and all rich text code from incoming messages and left nothing but plain text behind. And then it didn't recognise hashtags in messages from outside Mastodon as hashtags at all.
When Mastodon 4.0 came and supported some rich text, including embedded links, it went haywire, of course. But then someone from Friendica and Hubzilla went in and complained about this malfunction and explained what happened, why it happened and why it was not Friendica and Hubzilla that did things wrong. Besides, if something utterly defaces "toots", then Mastodon developers do step in to stop it. After all, Mastodon has a few more of them at hand, paid, full-time professionals even. You have to give it that.
Which takes us back to Sharkey. Sharkey is developed by a small handful of individuals in their spare time. Granted, it's a soft fork of Misskey, so a lot of development work is done by the Misskey devs and taken over by the Sharkey devs, but they still have to weave the code changes coming from Misskey in and make them work with what's different on Sharkey.
So it turned out that (Link content warning: eye contact) . All that has happened since then until today was that Hazelnoot added two labels. But the bug report came with no explanations. In fact, it misattributed one of my Hubzilla posts as a Friendica post.
And in fact, it turned out that this is actually (Link content warning: Microsoft GitHub link, eye contact) . The bug report is a bit more elaborate, but the reporter still knew precious little about what's going on. So I wrote a comment in which I explained the bug from a Friendica/Hubzilla POV as well as what's going on on the technical side, and why the error has to be on Misskey's side.
I hope this will finally help get the bug fixed. Unfortunately, this fix would come too late for Iceshrimp. Iceshrimp-JS is a true Forkey, but in maintenance mode, so I guess only security patches and critical bugfixes will be merged from Misskey, if anything. And Iceshrimp.NET is a complete rewrite of a pre-this-fix Misskey fork, so the Iceshrimp devs probably don't know about this issue either. If it fails ungracefully upon receiving hashtags with the hashtag character outside, it will require its own bug report.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #So there's that nasty bug on Sharkey that mangles hashtags in messages from Hubzilla and probably also Friendica, (streams) and Forte. They always look like this:
#Hashtag()
Basically, Sharkey receives fully standard Rich Text from Hubzilla. It manages to convert this Rich Text into its own Misskey-Flavored Markdown. But then its Markdown parser does not parse it and leaves the Markdown code visible to everyone. It simply doesn't expect there to be a hashtag character in front of an embedded link because, seriously, who'd ever do that and why!
Friendica would. In fact, Friendica does. It puts the hashtag character in front of the tag, as in outside the tag, as opposed to at the beginning of the tag. It has been doing that since its beginnings in 2010 because it was designed from the get-go to also federate with StatusNet from 2008. And StatusNet does hashtags the same way on its few remaining servers. In fact, so did Identi.ca from 2008, from which StatusNet emerged.
Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte do it, too, because they have inherited it from Friendica.
On StatusNet, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, a hashtag in a message looks like this:
#
Notice how the hashtag character has the same colour as the rest of the post text. And not the same colour as the rest of the hashtag. This means that the hashtag character is not part of the link. (To Mastodon users who don't know this: If something in a "toot" has a different colour from the rest of the "toot", it's a link. Even if it doesn't show a URL in plain sight.)
On , Mastodon, Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, the various Forkeys and a whole lot of other Fediverse software, a hashtag in a message looks like this:
Notice how now the hashtag character has the same colour as the rest of the hashtag. This means that the hashtag character is part of the link.
But why did Identi.ca do hashtags differently from Twitter Because Identi.ca did hashtags before Twitter. AFAIK, when Identi.ca was launched, it had support for hashtags right away. About one year before Twitter.
The hashtag itself had already been invented by the Twitter community. Chris Messina had already codified it in 2007. But it wasn't until 2009 that Twitter actually introduced a technological implementation to support it.
Again, Identi.ca must have had hashtags as early as 2008, and there was no way that Identi.ca creator Evan Prodromou could possibly predict what Twitter would do the following year. So he did what he thought was right and what actually made sense to him.
But nowadays, everybody "knows" that Twitter had the world's very first hashtag implementation ever because nobody, even in the Fediverse, has ever heard of Identi.ca. I mean, the majority of Fediverse users "know" that the Fediverse started with Mastodon.
You know, just like Officer James Barrett "knew" that there is no intelligent life outside Earth only a few minutes before he became Agent J of the Men In Black.
This is also why just about all Fediverse software that does hashtags the Twitter way expects everything to do hashtags the Twitter way. It does not expect hashtags to be done differently. And when a message comes in from Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte with hashtags in it, it fails at varying degrees of ungracefully.
Hashtags with the hashtag character outside the link are older than hashtags with the hashtag character inside that they're not only completely unexpected, that they cause software to malfunction, but the same software often can't even handle that malfunction. It's a miracle that the Friendica/Hubzilla family doesn't cause Fediverse servers to crash or even server databases to go corrupt by simply sending hashtags.
Mastodon used to be an exception of sorts, but only because, before version 4.0 from October, 2022, its HTML "sanitiser" actually ripped out any and all rich text code from incoming messages and left nothing but plain text behind. And then it didn't recognise hashtags in messages from outside Mastodon as hashtags at all.
When Mastodon 4.0 came and supported some rich text, including embedded links, it went haywire, of course. But then someone from Friendica and Hubzilla went in and complained about this malfunction and explained what happened, why it happened and why it was not Friendica and Hubzilla that did things wrong. Besides, if something utterly defaces "toots", then Mastodon developers do step in to stop it. After all, Mastodon has a few more of them at hand, paid, full-time professionals even. You have to give it that.
Which takes us back to Sharkey. Sharkey is developed by a small handful of individuals in their spare time. Granted, it's a soft fork of Misskey, so a lot of development work is done by the Misskey devs and taken over by the Sharkey devs, but they still have to weave the code changes coming from Misskey in and make them work with what's different on Sharkey.
So it turned out that (Link content warning: eye contact) . All that has happened since then until today was that Hazelnoot added two labels. But the bug report came with no explanations. In fact, it misattributed one of my Hubzilla posts as a Friendica post.
And in fact, it turned out that this is actually (Link content warning: Microsoft GitHub link, eye contact) . The bug report is a bit more elaborate, but the reporter still knew precious little about what's going on. So I wrote a comment in which I explained the bug from a Friendica/Hubzilla POV as well as what's going on on the technical side, and why the error has to be on Misskey's side.
I hope this will finally help get the bug fixed. Unfortunately, this fix would come too late for Iceshrimp. Iceshrimp-JS is a true Forkey, but in maintenance mode, so I guess only security patches and critical bugfixes will be merged from Misskey, if anything. And Iceshrimp.NET is a complete rewrite of a pre-this-fix Misskey fork, so the Iceshrimp devs probably don't know about this issue either. If it fails ungracefully upon receiving hashtags with the hashtag character outside, it will require its own bug report.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Fediverse-Serversoftware fr "Microblogging" (). Ein Fork von Misskey, das aus Japan kommt ().
Im Prinzip so etwas wie Mastodon und auch mit Mastodon voll verbunden, d. h. Mastodon-Nutzer knnen Misskey- und Sharkey-Nutzern folgen und umgekehrt und mit ihnen kommunizieren. Aber Misskey ist um einiges mchtiger und reicher an Features als Mastodon, und Sharkey ist noch einmal mchtiger und reicher an Features als Misskey.
So haben beide ein Zeichenlimit von 3000 Zeichen, wo Mastodon nur 500 hat. Und auf Sharkey ist es dann auch noch konfigurierbar, ohne wie bei Mastodon die Software selbst umbauen zu mssen.
(An dieser Stelle bruchte es eigentlich eine Mastodon/Misskey/Sharkey-Featurevergleichstabelle wie meine Mastodon/Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte-Featurevergleichstabelle ().)
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Das hat Hubzilla geerbt von Friendica, weil es umgebaut wurde aus einem Fork eines Forks von Friendica. Und Friendica hat es bernommen von StatusNet, weil es von vornherein mit StatusNet fderieren sollte. Und StatusNet hat es geerbt von Identi.ca.
Sie alle handhab(t)en Hashtags intern als Schlsselwrter, die keine Raute enthalten. Und sie stellen die Raute auerhalb des Link vor den Link, um zu signalisieren: Das hier ist ein Hashtag. Wenn man einen Post, einen Kommentar oder eine DM verschickt, wird aus dem Hashtag automatisch ein entsprechendes Konstrukt aus ungelinkter Raute plus Link aufs Schlsselwort generiert.
Das ist wie bei Namen: Auf allen war bzw. ist das kein Teil irgendeines Namen, nicht des Kurznamen, nicht des Langnamen. Der Kurzname, der Teil des Profil-Link ist, hat auch kein . Guck dir mal deine Erwhnung an: Das ist nicht Teil des Link, sondern steht vorm Link, und dein Langname ist erwhnt.
Warum "die" das anders gemacht haben als auf Twitter und Mastodon Ganz einfach: Weil "die" das vor Mastodon gemacht haben. Eigentlich sogar noch vor Twitter.
Identi.ca und StatusNet waren von 2008. Etwa acht Jahre vor Mastodon. Das war der eigentliche Urknall des Fediverse. Und StatusNet hatte meines Wissens damals schon offizielle Untersttzung fr Hashtags.
Warum hat es das nun anders gemacht als Twitter Weil es das vor Twitter gemacht hat.
Es war nmlich erst 2009, da Chris Messina offiziell Untersttzung fr Hashtags bei Twitter eingefhrt hat. Evan Prodromou, der Erfinder von Identi.ca, StatusNet und dem Fediverse, konnte unmglich etwa ein Jahr im voraus ahnen, wie Twitter mal Hashtags implementieren wird. Und die Twitter-Entwickler drften damals berhaupt nicht gewut haben, da auch nur Identi.ca existiert, geschweige denn, wie es Hashtags handhabt.
Friendica ging im Mai 2010 an den Start, etwa fnf Jahre und acht Monate vor Mastodon. Friendica basierte zwar auf einem eigenen Protokoll, war aber von vornherein in der Lage, sich mit StatusNet ber dessen eigenes OStatus-Protokoll zu verbinden. Praktischerweise hat der Friendica-Erfinder Mike Macgirvin gleich Identi.cas und StatusNets Handhabung von Hashtags bernommen. Zu diesem Zeitpunkt hatte Twitter Hashtags erst seit gut zehn Monaten.
Ende 2011 hat Mike Macgirvin Friendica geforkt, dann den Fork geforkt und diesen Fork namens Red (spter Red Matrix) dann ab 2012 komplett umgeschrieben. Zu diesem Zeitpunkt handhabte alles im Fediverse Hashtags noch auf dieselbe Art.
Um diese Zeit wurde StatusNet nach GNU social hardgeforkt, das wohl versuchte, mehr wie Twitter zu sein. Daher wurden auch die Hashtags wie auf Twitter ausgefhrt: mit der Raute als Teil des Schlsselworts und als Teil des Link. StatusNet verlor dann nach der 2012er Umstellung von Identi.ca auf pump.io seine Entwicklungsgrundlage und wurde 2013 kurzerhand nach GNU social gemerget, ohne aber die Hashtags wieder auf die alte Form umzustellen.
Im Mrz 2015 wurde erstmals Hubzilla verffentlicht, das entstanden war, indem die Red Matrix umbenannt und massiv erweitert worden war.
Erst im Januar 2016 kam dann Mastodon, Pleroma kurze Zeit spter. Weil beide ursprnglich alternative Frontends fr GNU social sein sollten, bernahmen sie von GNU social die Twitter-Hashtags.
Zu diesem Zeitpunkt sahen weder die neuen Entwickler, die Friendica seit Ende 2011 hatte, noch Mike Macgirvin es ein, warum sie ihre Software unbedingt an Mastodon anpassen sollten. Mike, der inzwischen zwei Nachfahren von Hubzilla betreut, sieht es bis heute nicht ein. Eher baut er serverseitige Gegenmittel gegen Mastodon in seine Software ein.
Misskey landete meines Wissens erst 2018 im Fediverse, nachdem es ActivityPub adoptiert hatte. Das hatte brigens Hubzilla als erstes, seit Juli 2017, und Mastodon als zweites, seit September.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
All times are in grid time = PST.
Friday, January 16th (actual anniversary date)
11:00: DJ Anachron Young (open end)
Event location: Rock-House, Nihilon
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Nihilon/216/167/22
Saturday, January 17th
10:00: Reading by Rubeus Helgerud
11:00: Wolem Wobbit live "Still Alive"
Afterwards: DJ Rubeus Helgerud (open end)
Event location: Festival ground, Landing
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Landing/140/149/22
# # # # # # # # # #Dorenas World, the oldest German-speaking grid and the third-oldest of all grids, is going to this week. Due to real-life influences, the schedule is somewhat cut short.
All times are in grid time = PST.
Friday, January 16th (actual anniversary date)
11:00: DJ Anachron Young (open end)
Event location: Rock-House, Nihilon
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Nihilon/216/167/22
Saturday, January 17th
10:00: Reading by Rubeus Helgerud
11:00: Wolem Wobbit live "Still Alive"
Afterwards: DJ Rubeus Helgerud (open end)
Event location: Festival ground, Landing
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Landing/140/149/22
# # # # # # # # # # Die wollen kein soziales Netzwerk. Die wollen ein soziales Medium. Etwas, wo sie einfach nur Content rauspusten knnen, ohne mit irgendjemandem interagieren zu mssen.
Knnen sie auch im Fediverse haben: ein Marktschreierkonto auf (wenn's das da noch gibt).
Oder auf knnten sie Verbindungsanfragen automatisch akzeptieren und niemandem das Liken und Kommentieren und das Zusenden eigener Posts erlauben (weil sie ja keine Interaktion wollen, wobei das auf Mastodon & Co. keiner merken wird, da das alles nicht erlaubt ist). Zustzlich knnten sie die RSS-/Atom-Feeds ihrer eigenen offiziellen Pressemitteilungen abonnieren und als Channel Sources automatisch reposten, um fr mehr Content und mehr Aktivitt ohne mehr Arbeit zu sorgen.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
Das mit dem
Das mit dem kaputten Hashtag liegt daran, da Friendica und seine Nachfahren Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte bei Hashtags die Raute nicht mit zum Teil des Link machen.
Auf Twitter/ ist die Raute bei Hashtags Teil des Link: . Mastodon, Misskey, all ihre Forks und viele anderen Microblogging-Anwendungen haben das so bernommen.
Auf Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte ist die Raute bei Hashtag nicht Teil des Link: #. Der Grund: Friendica ist kein Twitter-Ersatz, sondern eine Facebook-Alternative. Und Friendica ging schon im Mai 2010 an den Start mit genau diesen Hashtags. Das war, bevor Facebook Hashtags hatte, und das war, bevor es en vogue war, Twitter zu klonen.
Hubzilla ist umgebaut worden aus einem Fork eines Forks von Friendica. (streams) ist ein Fork eines Forks dreier Forks eines Forks (eines Forks) von Hubzilla. Forte ist ein Fork von (streams). Alles von Friendicas eigenem Erfinder aus der Taufe gehoben. Also haben sie alle Friendicas Verhalten geerbt, auch weil es keinerlei Veranlassung gab, das zu ndern.
Das Problem ist nun: Zum einen rechnet Sharkey nicht mit Hashtags, bei denen die Raute davor statt mit drin steht (das tut Mastodon auch nicht, aber Mastodon kann das einigermaen abfedern, seit da mal jemand einen Issue eingereicht hat). Zum anderen kann Sharkey augenscheinlich auch nicht damit umgehen, da irgendwelche Inhalte in irgendwas anderem als Misskey-Flavored Markdown formatiert sind.
Auf Hubzilla sind Posts, Kommentare und DMs intern in BBcode formatiert. PubCrawl, das die optionale ActivityPub-Anbindung zur Verfgung stellt, wandelt den BBcode allerdings in standardkonformes Rich Text Format um, das meines Wissens so auch in der offiziellen ActivityPub-Spezifikation empfohlen wird.
Mastodon nimmt das RTF, wandelt es in HTML um, schickt es durch seinen HTML-Sanitiser, der alles Unliebsame rausschmeit (vor Mastodon 4.0 hat der Sanitiser noch alles rausgeschmissen und nur noch Reintext briggelassen), und zeigt das Ergebnis dann zuverlssig an.
Sharkey scheint dagegen nur gebaut zu sein gegen sich selbst (sendet wohl MFM), Misskey (sendet wohl auch MFM), eventuell andere Forkeys (senden wohl auch alle MFM) und Mastodon (kann gar keine Textformatierung erzeugen und sendet daher auch keine). Es scheint nicht damit zu rechnen, da sich irgendwas an die Spec hlt und RTF sendet.
Irgendjemand sollte sich also mal mit Fehlermeldungen an die Misskey- und Sharkey-Entwickler wenden.
Hier mal ein Test (dieser Kommentar kommt auch von Hubzilla): Funktioniert das hier
Sorry, jetzt mu ich selbst eine Zeile Hashtags einbauen, auch, um zuverlssig die Filter, die mglicherweise gerade auf Mastodon viele im Einsatz haben, auslsen zu knnen.
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Because they're probably stuck at freshly-switched-from-the--iPhone-app-to-the-Mastodon-iPhone-app level of Fediverse knowledge. They probably don't simply believe that the Fediverse is only Mastodon. No, they must believe that the Fediverse is only one server, one website, namely mastodon.social. They might be unable to imagine that multiple Twitter-like websites that run the same code can communicate with each other. After all, they haven't heard of anything like this having happened before.
Which also means that the guys behind the Forkiverse think that their Forkiverse is every but as much a centralised, single-website walled garden silo as they think the Fediverse, i.e. mastodon.social, is. And that there are exactly two websites running Mastodon code now, namely mastodon.social, for which the Mastodon code was probably developed, and the Forkiverse.
If that's so, they're probably going to go completely insane once they discover that people on mastodon.social start leaving content in their Forkiverse. Or people from wholly different Mastodon servers, something they might not even expect to exist.
And that says nothing about how they'll react upon the first comment on a Forkiverse post from something that's very much, very obviously, very blatantly not Mastodon. Like Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte. Something that does everything differently from Mastodon, from 33,000 times more characters to text formatting to bullet-point lists to headlines to very different-looking hashtags and mentions.
I mean, I know that Mastodon users who got used to a Mastodon-only Fediverse frequently lose their minds when they come across the first message that's obviously not from Mastodon, and whose author states and proves that this is not a Mastodon toot. And I've seen at least one tech journalist insist in Mastodon being an enclosed network itself and himself being right because he, very much unlike those filthy amateurs that drivel about Calckey and Friendica and Hubzilla and whatnot, is a journalist and therefore a professional.
But imagine you know next to nothing about Mastodon, other than that mastodon.social is a website that's an alternative to , and that it's running on an open-source server application that's also named Mastodon. And then you set up your own website with the same code. And you think it's every bit a walled garden as and as mastodon.social straight out of the box. And then you, as one of the admins and site owners, receive a comment on one of your posts that so very much blatantly not even a Mastodon toot.
Brix will be shat. This will hurt horribly.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # #Why does someone call one single Fediverse server, one single website "-verse"
Because they're probably stuck at freshly-switched-from-the--iPhone-app-to-the-Mastodon-iPhone-app level of Fediverse knowledge. They probably don't simply believe that the Fediverse is only Mastodon. No, they must believe that the Fediverse is only one server, one website, namely mastodon.social. They might be unable to imagine that multiple Twitter-like websites that run the same code can communicate with each other. After all, they haven't heard of anything like this having happened before.
Which also means that the guys behind the Forkiverse think that their Forkiverse is every but as much a centralised, single-website walled garden silo as they think the Fediverse, i.e. mastodon.social, is. And that there are exactly two websites running Mastodon code now, namely mastodon.social, for which the Mastodon code was probably developed, and the Forkiverse.
If that's so, they're probably going to go completely insane once they discover that people on mastodon.social start leaving content in their Forkiverse. Or people from wholly different Mastodon servers, something they might not even expect to exist.
And that says nothing about how they'll react upon the first comment on a Forkiverse post from something that's very much, very obviously, very blatantly not Mastodon. Like Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte. Something that does everything differently from Mastodon, from 33,000 times more characters to text formatting to bullet-point lists to headlines to very different-looking hashtags and mentions.
I mean, I know that Mastodon users who got used to a Mastodon-only Fediverse frequently lose their minds when they come across the first message that's obviously not from Mastodon, and whose author states and proves that this is not a Mastodon toot. And I've seen at least one tech journalist insist in Mastodon being an enclosed network itself and himself being right because he, very much unlike those filthy amateurs that drivel about Calckey and Friendica and Hubzilla and whatnot, is a journalist and therefore a professional.
But imagine you know next to nothing about Mastodon, other than that mastodon.social is a website that's an alternative to , and that it's running on an open-source server application that's also named Mastodon. And then you set up your own website with the same code. And you think it's every bit a walled garden as and as mastodon.social straight out of the box. And then you, as one of the admins and site owners, receive a comment on one of your posts that so very much blatantly not even a Mastodon toot.
Brix will be shat. This will hurt horribly.
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Als Nutzer kann man es aber nicht installieren, sondern nur als Serveradmin und dann wie schon angedeutet nur fr alle Nutzer gleichermaen.
Es funktioniert auch mit Mastodon.
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At the same time, they could actually be very active posters. But for privacy and security reasons, they don't post in public. All their posts have restricted permissions. Alternatively, they do post in public, but they only grant permission to see their stream of posts on their channel to their contacts or even only to certain contacts. Either way, you as a non-contact are not allowed to access their posts.
Imagine you, on Mastodon, could allow only your followers and followed to read your profile. And you could allow only your followers and followed to access the timeline on your profile page. Both is absolutely possible on Hubzilla. Or you only ever post to "followers only" and never in public, so your posts don't show up in your timeline.
Either way, there's a profile, and there are posts, but you are not allowed to access them. So to you, it appears like a blank and inactive account.
Still, Hubzilla does little to nothing in terms of accessibility. In its software family that spans a decade and a half, it's the only server application that requires coding to add alt-texts.
Friendica may have introduced a Mastodon-like entry field. (streams) and Forte allow for alt-texts to be stored with images in the built-in filespace so they're automatically added when an image is embedded into a post or a comment. On Hubzilla, the alt-text must still be manually grafted into the image-embedding BBcode. Even that information was only spread via hearsay until it was added to the official documentation last year or so.
So the reason why there's hardly ever any alt-text coming from Hubzilla is not because Hubzilla staunchly refuses to replace its own culture with Mastodon's (which it does, by the way, and for very good reasons). It's partly because adding alt-texts is so tedious and requires what amounts to "programming". And it's partly because since Hubzilla's post and comment editors have no UI elements for alt-texts, and neither do the file and image uploaders, hardly anyone on Hubzilla even knows about alt-texts and that it's possible to add them on Hubzilla in the first place.
Hubzilla's entire UI/UX is mostly stuck in 2012 with parts of it dating back to 2010. That was when accessibility didn't matter for hobbyist projects. And it was developed by someone who's much more of a protocol developer than a UI expert. There hasn't changed that much about it since back then except for new features having their UI elements glued on in sometimes seemingly random places.
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Zunchst einmal, das hier ist mein Kanal:
Das hier ist mein ffentliches Profil:
Das Farbschema nebst Hintergrundbild ist brigens von mir. Das ist alles einstellbar. Das Layout und die Navigation habe ich auch ein bichen frisiert.
Es gibt einen ungefhr monatlich stattfindenden deutschsprachigen Hubzilla-Workshop. Der findet statt auf BigBlueButton, du brauchst also nur einen Webbrowser, ein Mikro und eine Abhre. Er hat einen eigenen Hubzilla-Kanal: . Dem kann man meines Wissens auch von Mastodon aus folgen. Alternativ kann man der Organisatorin folgen (Mastodon: Hubzilla: Friendica: ).
Folgenswert ist auch der schreibt fters mal ber Hubzilla. Er hat auch das komplette Hilfesystem fr Hubzilla auf Deutsch und Englisch neu geschrieben (), und er betreibt die Hubzilla KnowledgeDB () und ein deutschsprachiges Supportforum ().
Auf dem zweiten Workshop im Oktober 2025 hat Pepe zunchst einmal einen Vortrag gehalten ber den Einstieg in Hubzilla. Hier ist das Video:
Auf demselben Workshop habe ich einen Vortrag gehalten ber Privacy-Gruppen (= Mastodon-Listen auf Steroiden und Koks) und Kontaktrollen (gibt's auf Mastodon so nicht mal ansatzweise). Hier ist das Video:
Auf dem dritten Workshop im November ging es darum, wie auf Hubzilla gepostet wird. Das ist an sich schon ein gewaltig viel greres Thema als das "Trten" auf Mastodon. Da hat Pepe auch einen Vortrag generell ber das Posten gehalten (Videos scheint es nicht zu geben Prsentation: ) und ich einen ber die Unterschiede beim Posten zwischen Hubzilla und vor allem Mastodon (wieder kein Video Prsentation: ).
Der erste Workshop im September war eigentlich nur ein Testballon, knnte aber trotzdem interessant gewesen sein. Da ging es um verschiedene Einstellungen, um Hubzillas mchtige Filter und um verschiedene Tips & Tricks. Hier ist das Video:
Die nchsten zwei Workshops sind am Mittwoch, dem 28. Januar, und am Mittwoch, dem 11. Februar, jeweils um 19.30 Uhr. In beiden geht es um Hubzillas mchtiges und hochkomplexes Berechtigungssystem. Das ist so ein groes Thema, da wir beschlossen haben, es auf zwei Workshops auszudehnen. Das heit, den am 11. Februar verstehst du wahrscheinlich nur, wenn du am 28. Januar schon da warst.
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It gets really interesting when the permissions system is applied to groups. As the owner of a Hubzilla forum, you have the following options:
(streams) and Forte have four different types of group channels instead:
As I've already said, you can grant individual permissions to your contacts on your personal channel. But you can grant individual permissions to forum users on a forum channel just the same. You can have regular users. You can have users with certain extra privileges. You can use the permissions system to silence users without kicking and blocking them.
And you can use the permissions system to appoint extra forum admins/mods. You can grant contacts permission to administer your forum. Now, this requires for your channel to recognise visitors and their identities to see what permissions they shall have and to grant them these permissions. And this requires OpenWebAuth. So right now, you can only make forum members from Hubzilla, (streams), Forte, Friendica, Mitra and Tootik additional admins/mods. But you can.
(9/9)
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As I've already said, whenever you write a post to start a new thread, you also define the permissions of this post. Of this post and of all replies.
Let's translate this to Mastodon again.
You know the toot visibility button, I guess. Let's assume it looks and works somewhat different. Especially the visibility options.
"Public" still exists. It does what it says on the button: It makes your toot public. Oh, and now, it also makes all replies public. There's no replying to your toot with a DM.
The other three don't exist.
Instead, as the second option, you have "Only me".
Right below, all your lists are listed up. You can pick one of them. You can send your toot to everyone on one specific list of yours and to only those on that list, all without having to mention them. Better yet: Only those on that list are permitted to see your toot. And only those on that list are permitted to see any reply to your toot. Killer feature: They can see each other's replies, and they can reply to each other.
Below that, all groups that you follow are listed up. Again, you can pick one of them. This will have the effect that your toot will go to the group, and it will be forwarded by the group to all its members, but it will not go to your followers unless they're also in that group.
Below that, there's "Custom selection". This opens another window with each one of your lists and each one of your followed accounts, each with a green "Allow" button and a red "Don't allow" button. Here, you can put together a choice of lists and single accounts whom to send your toot to and a choice of lists and single accounts whom not to send your toot to. Again, only those who receive the toot are also permitted to see it, and only them are permitted to see any of the replies, and no-one can ever change these permissions.
What sense this makes
Imagine you have a list with a certain group of friends in it. One of them will soon celebrate their birthday, and you want to organise a birthday surprise for them. So you send a toot to that list with everyone in it, but without that person who'll soon celebrate their birthday so you won't ruin the surprise for them.
Or: Imagine you have lists according to which languages people speak. Like, you have a German list, and you have an English list. Then you can put together an audience for a German toot from lists and single followed users, but exclude the English list so that those who don't understand German anyway won't receive that toot.
By the way: This also covers DMs. And this means that DMs are actually private.
As Mastodon is right now, you can DM Alice, you can have a conversation with Alice, but Alice could mention Bob and pull him into the conversation. This also gives Bob the opportunity to read the whole thread because he has access to it now. Mastodon only defines to whom a message is sent, but not who is allowed to see it.
In this version of Mastodon, when you DM Alice, you only grant Alice permission to see your toot and everything else in the thread. Now, Alice can mention Bob all she wants, but she can't pull him into the thread. Bob won't even receive the toot with his mention in it. He is not permitted to see it. You have not granted him permission to see the start toot, and thus, you have not granted him permission to see any of the replies, including the one in which Alice mentions him. Alice cannot change any permissions in the thread. Neither can you, by the way. The moment you send the start toot, all permissions are permanently set in stone for the whole thread.
This also makes dogpiling by extra mentions in DMs impossible.
Also, this provides for very effective quote-post control. It isn't allowed to boost posts that aren't public, including replies. It isn't allowed either to Mastodon-style-quote, as in quote-post, posts that aren't public, including replies.
These DMs have another advantage of DMs on Mastodon-as-it-is-now: If you send a DM to Alice and Bob, Bob receives Alice's replies, and Alice receives Bob's replies, and the two can reply to one another.
Oh, by the way, there's another nifty button. A speech bubble. With this button, you can allow or disallow replies to your post. Mind you, again, this only works when you start a thread. You cannot allow or disallow replies to a reply that you post.
Now, how does Mastodon-as-it-is-now handle DMs from Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte It sees them as Mastodon DMs, and it treats them like Mastodon DMs. The downside is, if I send a restricted-permission post to Alice on Mastodon and Bob on Mastodon, both perceive it as a Mastodon DM. Both can only reply to and converse with me. They can't see each other's replies, and they can't reply to each other.
(8/9)
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Let's go one level further down. The second level of Hubzilla's permission system is per contact. On Mastodon, that'd be those whom you follow.
If Mastodon was like Hubzilla, you'd have the possibility to create permission templates which you can then assign to those whom you follow. (Hubzilla calls them "contact roles", by the way.)
Like, you could make one template for those whom you really trust. You grant all permissions in that template.
Then you could make one that's more privacy-oriented. You only grant permission to send you toots, fave and reply to your toots and send you DMs.
In theory, you could also make one for those whom you absolutely must follow, but whose toots you don't want. In this one, you only grant permission to fave and reply to your toots and send you DMs. This, however, only makes sense on something that works like Facebook, something like Hubzilla, where you can only confirm follow requests by also following back because connections are always mutual by default.
Then you could go to your list of followed accounts. And you could edit and configure them, one by one. You could choose which of these permission templates is assigned to them and thereby what you allow them to do. While you're already there, you could also, for example, add them to lists or remove them from lists.
There's one catch, though: If you grant a permission for your whole account, you automatically grant it to everyone whom you follow. You cannot forbid one of your followed something your account generally allows. So if you want to be able to choose whether someone is allowed to do something or not, you must not allow it for your whole account, and instead, you must allow it followed by followed.
(streams) and Forte make things a great deal easier than Hubzilla, by the way: They don't require such templates anymore. Instead, when you go edit a contact, you'll see one on-off switch for each permission, and you can turn each permission on or off right there, right then (provided it isn't inherited from the channel). You still have such templates, but they only serve to grant the same set of permissions to a whole lot of contacts without having to click single permissions on or off for all of them.
(7/9)
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The top level of Hubzilla's permissions system is the whole channel. On Mastodon, that'd be your account and everything that happens on it.
Translated to Mastodon again, for each of the above permissions, your account would have seven or eight choices whom to grant the corresponding permission:
*It's unclear what exactly this option means. See, Hubzilla is not based on ActivityPub. It is based on its own protocol, Zot. When it was created, it was the only server software that used Zot, so limiting permissions to Hubzilla and limiting permissions to whatever uses Zot had the same effect, seeing as Hubzilla could and still can also connect to a whole lot of other things using a whole lot of other protocols. So nowadays, "Anybody in this network" may mean anybody using Zot which means anybody on Hubzilla or (streams), or it may mean anybody on Hubzilla which means just that, excluding (streams).
**This translates to Mastodon badly. Basically, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte know three states of connection. Either a Mastodon follow request, that's a "contact". Or a mutual follower, that's a "confirmed contact" because it's listed on your connections page, and you have control over that connection. Or only you follow someone, that's a "confirmed contact", too, because, again, because it's listed on your connections page, and you have control over that connection. The concept of confirmed follower doesn't exist because confirming a connection request will automatically make it a mutual connection. Remember we aren't talking about Twitter followers and Twitter followed, but about Faceboook friends.
The choices on (streams) and Forte, translated to Mastodon, are:
To stick with Mastodon equivalents, there are a few more settings on Hubzilla (as for (streams) and Forte, I've covered them in the previous comment already).
I guess you already know the switch that hides your account from Google and other search engines and the switch that makes your account automatically accept follow requests.
You know that you can mention anyone out of the blue on Mastodon, regardless of whether they follow you or you follow them or not, and they're always notified Imagine this being notified is optional. And off by default. On Hubzilla, both is the case.
Okay, so, next, you don't allow anyone on the internet to reply to your toots. But there's an option that "half-allows" this: Anyone on the internet can send replies to your toots, even if they don't have any Fediverse account at all. Now it comes: You have to approve these replies. You have a green button that you can click, and the reply becomes visible, and it's added to the thread to which it belongs. Before then, nobody can see the reply but you. You also have a red button, and when you click it, the reply is rejected and deleted.
There are two clear use-cases for this. One is when you want absolute control over who replies what to you. Then you don't allow anyone to reply to your toots, but you activate this option. When someone does reply, you can choose whether to let the reply through or delete it.
The other one is a use-case that doesn't work on Mastodon, namely when you want to run a Hubzilla channel as a fully public long-form blog with a target audience that isn't limited to the Fediverse, and you want everyone to be able to comment on your posts, even without having some Fediverse account and following you first, but you want to keep spam out.
Lastly, there's the option that if you don't allow everyone to see your images and other media at , these images and other media can still be seen attached to toots by those who are allowed to see the toots that they're attached to.
(6/9)
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Now allow me to explain Hubzilla's permissions system to you. From a Mastodon point of view again.
Hubzilla's permission system works on three levels. In Mastospeak, the first level is your entire account.
The second level is everyone whom you follow, individually. Like, you can go to your list of followed accounts and click on them and configure them. Among other things, you can assign to them a set of permissions that, usually, you'll first define. You'll probably have multiple such sets of permissions.
(Yes, this completely leaves out those who only follow you, and whom you don't follow back. Such a thing does not exist on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. That is, it does, but you don't have a list of these, and you can't configure these, because they can't do much anyway as long as you don't follow them.)
And the third level is each toot that is not a reply, and then that toot forces its own permissions hard upon all toots that reply to it. If you reply to someone else's toot, your toot will have the same permissions as the start toot with no way for you to change them.
Translated to Mastodon, Hubzilla offers the following permissions:
In addition, there are more permissions that don't translate to Mastodon because they cover features that Mastodon doesn't have:
Translated to Mastodon again, (streams) and Forte offer the following permission settings, some of which are yes/no switches, some are numbers or text fields:
Again, there are permissions that don't translate well to Mastodon:
listManually allow toots from those who request to follow you
(Doesn't make sense on Mastodon because if someone wants to follow you, you do not have to follow them back on (streams) and Forte, confirming a follow request does make you follow them back) Show links to all clones of your account in your profile
(Mastodon doesn't have nomadic identity) Don't show whether you're online
(Mastodon doesn't show whether you're online anyway, it doesn't even have this feature)/list
That said, some of these permissions don't make sense from a Mastodon point of view, namely those that handle what people can see when visiting your profile at . There would have be some way to identify them to grant them the permissions you've given them.
Hubzilla has such a way, as do (streams) and Forte. It's OpenWebAuth, a "magic sign-on" system created by the creator of these four for a Hubzilla fork that was backported to Hubzilla and inherited by (streams) and Forte. These three can recognise logins to grant guest permissions, and their logins can be recognised. There are a few more Fediverse applications whose logins can be recognised. This was actually also developed for Mastodon and ready to be merged in, but the patch was actually silently rejected.
(5/9)
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Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte have the option to announce events in new posts. Mastodon can receive and show these posts.
However, Mastodon has no way to handle the actual event part. Like, you can't confirm your participation in an event on Mastodon. Mastodon doesn't know events. Mastodon has no buttons or other UI elements for interacting with events. And Mastodon doesn't have an event calendar either which you'd add the event to when confirming your participation.
There are also events with no announcement post. For example, birthdays. Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte have a dedicated birthday field in their profiles, much unlike Mastodon. For example, I have a "birthday" in my public profile. When someone on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte connects to me, and I confirm that connection, my "birthday" will be added to their event calendar, and they will be notified about my "birthday" every year. This might also work for users on PieFed which has an event calendar, too, although I'm not sure if PieFed understands these birthday fields.
(4/9)
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If you want to reply, just reply. It's good manners to mention whomever you're directly replying to, and even that only if you're replying to a reply. But you don't have to mention anyone to reach anyone. Even then, your reply will be boosted to everyone who has received the top post.
Even if you reply to Carol who has replied to Bob who has replied to Alice who has started a thread in the group.
Within Mastodon, you'd have to mention Carol so she receives and sees your reply, you'd have to mention Bob so he receives and sees your reply, you'd have to mention Alice so she receives and sees your reply.
Conversations on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte work much more like on Facebook: Your reply will go past Carol. Past Bob. Past Alice. Straight to the group account/channel. From there to Alice because she has started the conversation. And to Bob and Carol because they have received the quote-post of Alice's post. And to everyone else who has received the quote-post of Alice's post.
Now, how does everyone see your reply
At this point, it's important to say that a Friendica feed or a Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte stream looks vastly different from a Twitter feed or a Mastodon timeline and much more like a Facebook feed. Again, that's because Friendica was a Facebook alternative long before Twitter clones became the default. And Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte are direct descendants of Friendica with largely the same purpose. So no mimicking Twitter's behaviour here.
What does your Mastodon timeline look like Single posts with no context. And more single posts with no context. You receive a new post, it immediately shows up at the top of your timeline as a single post with no context. You have no idea how many unread messages you have. You want to see the context of a post, you have to click and click and click.
Facebook doesn't show you single-post-with-no-context piecemeal. Neither do Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. They always show you entire conversations with the top post and with all comments.
Imagine your Mastodon timeline. But instead of single posts with no context, you always see entire conversations with the top post and all replies that is, you actually only see the last three replies, but you can easily unfold the thread view and see everything.
Imagine whenever someone replies to a post that you already have in your timeline, you automatically receive that reply.
Imagine that you have a little counter of unread messages somewhere. When you receive a new post, the counter goes up by one. When you receive a new reply, the counter goes up by one. But neither that new post nor that new reply is automatically added to the top of your timeline.
Now you click the counter of unread messages. Out comes a list of unread messages. Not the messages proper. A list, including who sent them and, if that's the case, whom they reply to (not as in whom they directly reply to, as in Carol in the above example, but who wrote the top post, as in Alice in the above example).
You can click on any item in the list. Imagine you do. You will leave the timeline view. You will be shown only that one conversation with the top post and the comments. And the view will focus on the new comment and flag it as seen, and the counter of unread messages will go down by one. You can scroll through the conversation and see the entire context in which that reply was posted.
This is what Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups and Forte groups are geared towards. They aren't group add-ons to Mastodon, and they aren't geared towards integrating perfectly into Mastodon. Remember that Friendica groups are almost six years older than Mastodon itself.
I'm not sure how exactly Mastodon users receive replies from Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups or Forte groups. One thing is certain: They will not visibly mention you. Another thing is certain: They will send you replies regardless.
I can only guess what happens: You do get replies. But you get them as new posts in your timeline. And you have to scroll down your timeline until you stumble upon them. If you really want to participate in groups, if you really want to see everything that happens there, you'll have to scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll down your timeline until you hit posts which you know you've seen before. You probably won't be notified about these replies.
(3/9)
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Okay, here comes the twist. Here is where the group magic happens.
If you want to start a new thread in that group, you have to be a member of the group account. Connected to the group account. In Mastospeak, mutually follow the group account.
Then, if you send a new post that mentions the group account, and it is not a reply to another post, then the group account will automatically quote your post and send the quote-post with your post in it to all its connections (followers).
You know quotes Quote-posts Like, quote-tweets What half of Mastodon is so afraid of because it's used on Twitter only to harass and dogpile people That's what I'm talking about. Friendica has had these quote-posts for almost 16 years, and never have they been used for harassment and dogpiling, for never has anyone used Friendica as a drop-in replacement for Twitter. Friendica calls them "shares". And Friendica has used these quote-posts in groups for almost 16 years.
That is, within Friendica (and its descendants), one thing is a wee bit different: If you're on Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte, you have to send a DM with a special mention (
But from Mastodon accounts and the like, it accepts public posts with
(2/9)
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As for a Friendica group, you can think of it as a Mastodon account, but with a little twist. In order to join that group, you follow it. And if you have your own group, you have one Mastodon account that's your personal account and another Mastodon account that's the group.
However, Friendica is not a Twitter clone. It's a Facebook replacement, and it has been one long before cloning Twitter was considered the one thing the Fediverse does.
Now, Twitter has followers and followed. As does Mastodon because Mastodon is a Twitter clone.
But Facebook doesn't have followers and followed. It has "friends" which in Twitterspeak and Mastospeak are mutual followers. Thus, it's the same on Friendica.
Friendica doesn't have followers and followed as two fully separate things and mutuals as the state when you follow someone and they follow you back. It has connections which are always mutual.
So in order to really join a Friendica group, you must connect to it (Mastodon: follow it), and the group account must confirm the connection (Mastodon: follow you back).
It's basically the same on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. Only that on these three, much unlike on Mastodon and Friendica, the account, the login and the identity are not tied together into one thing. Imagine you could have as many Mastodon-accounts-as-in-identities on one Mastodon-account-as-in-login. Imagine you could switch back and forth between fully independent identities on the same server without having to log out and back in again. Only that Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte refer to a Mastodon-account-as-in-identity as a "channel" and to a Mastodon-account-as-in-login as an "account".
This means that on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, a group (Hubzilla: forum) is a channel with special settings. As a group owner, you have one account/login, and on that one account/login, you have your personal channel, and you have your group/forum channel, and you can switch between them while staying logged in.
(1/9)
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The Fediverse has literally got just about of this right now. Mastodon doesn't. But the Fediverse does because there's stuff in the Fediverse, as in federated with Mastodon, that has it. And it has had all of this for longer than Mastodon has even existed.
Friendica has
Friendica is from May, 2010, over five and a half years older than Mastodon.
It was made as an alternative for Facebook right away. It was not meant to be a Facebook clone, though, but better than Facebook while also covering all long-form blogging features.
And Friendica is fully federated with Mastodon. You can follow Friendica accounts from Mastodon, and Friendica users can connect to your Mastodon account from Friendica.
Hubzilla has
Hubzilla is from March, 2016, ten months older than Mastodon. It was created by Friendica's creator by rebuilding and repurposing a fork of a fork of Friendica.
It is considered a "decentralised social content management system" that can be just about anything you want it to be because it's so modular. Basically, what's incomplete and unstable at best and an unfulfilled promise at worst on Bonfire has been readily available and rock-solid stable for over 10 years on Hubzilla. And even more on top of that.
Red, the Hubzilla precursor, was the first software to establish nomadic identity, something that Bluesky claims to be in the process of inventing from scratch. And that was as early as 2012.
Hubzilla was the very first software to implement ActivityPub. And unlike Mastodon, Hubzilla implemented ActivityPub by the book and largely still does so.
And Hubzilla is optionally fully federated with Mastodon. In fact, this comment that you're reading right now comes from Hubzilla. Like, you're directly speaking with someone on something that has absolutely everything you wish for the Fediverse to have, and that has had all of it for longer than Mastodon has existed.
(streams) and Forte have
(streams) is from October, 2021. It was created by Friendica's creator as a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork) of Hubzilla.
Forte is from August, 2024. It was created by Friendica's creator as a fork of (streams).
Forte was the first software to establish nomadic identity via ActivityPub.
And both are fully federated with Mastodon (streams) optionally so, but it is by default.
I've made a document with a series of tables which directly compare the features of Mastodon, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte:
In fact, this document is on the very same Hubzilla channel that I'm commenting from right now.
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Die Leute auf Mastodon haben sich einfach gewhnt an ihr schnes, liebes, nettes, kuscheliges, flauschiges, einheitliches Mastodon-Fediverse, das Gargron 2016 (oder 2022) als in sich geschlossenes Netzwerk erfunden haben soll. Oder sie gewhnen sich gerade daran. Genau so wollen sie es also haben.
Erstens haben sie zuerst den Begriff "Mastodon" gelernt und mssen sich jetzt nicht nur die Mhe machen, auch "Fediverse" zu lernen, sondern dann auch noch zu lernen, da diese Begriffe nicht gleichbedeutend sind.
Zweitens empfinden sie alles im Fediverse, was nicht Mastodon ist, als strend. berhaupt, der Gedanke, ihr schnes flauschiges Mastodon-Fediverse mit irgendwas teilen zu mssen, was nicht das schne flauschige Mastodon ist, ist zutiefst verstrend. Das wollen sie nicht. Das soll wieder weg. (Wobei "wieder" Quatsch ist: Friendica und Hubzilla, zwei der "schlimmsten Strenfriede", waren vor Mastodon im Fediverse.)
Na ja, und drittens empfinden sie jede Erklrung, nach der sie nicht ausdrcklich gefragt haben, als bergriffig und Fedisplaining und Reply-Guying oder gar Mansplaining. Aber buchstblich niemand von ihnen wrde je auf die Idee kommen zu hinterfragen, ob das Fediverse wirklich nur aus Mastodon besteht. Das steht fr sie auer Frage, bis sie das Gegenteil erfahren.
brigens gilt man auf Mastodon vielfach schon als Reply-Guy, wenn man jemandem antwortet, der einen nicht vorher erwhnt hat und mit dem man auch nicht beidseitig verbunden ist. Wohlgemerkt, auf Friendica und hier auf Hubzilla, wo Konversationen vllig anders funktionieren und Kommentare vllig anders verteilt werden als auf Mastodon, ist das ein ganz normaler Vorgang.
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One of my (streams) channels is jup . It specialises in 3-D virtual worlds, so that's very niche. It has 43 connections. Two are PeerTube channels. One is a podcast on Castopod. Two are groups. 13 are only inbound. Another two are my own Hubzilla channels. The rest isn't enough for me to get a significant number of repeats for any of my image posts, especially since my images probably aren't interesting for that many people to begin with.
The other one is jup . It specialises in Fediverse memes, and as these memes are never Mastodon-centric and often not about Mastodon at all, it's very niche again. It has only 12 connections. Two are FediBuzz relays and only inbound. One is a Lemmy community, and I'm not even sure if that connection works properly I don't post to it anyway. One is a Bonfire test account that ought to be dead now. So I'm down to 8 working outbound connections at most.
In fact, this Hubzilla channel that I'm commenting from right now must have well over 700 outbound connections, maybe over 800 by now. I could completely go out of my way describing images like in . But as you can see, not a single repeat, not even a single like. I've looked through my image posts. I couldn't find a single one with even only one measly repeat.
Either my reach is minimal in spite of these figures. Or the topics of my image posts are so niche and obscure that they simply aren't interesting for anyone. Or there are fewer Fediverse users who appreciate my posts and my image descriptions than there are Mastodon users who mute or block me for posting more than 500 characters at once. The latter means that a proper pair of descriptions for an in-world image costs me more reach than it grants me.
So I can't confirm that alt-text will give me more boosts.
Still, I'll continue to refuse to post any images without what I consider sufficient image descriptions and explanations. So don't worry about that. (But no, I won't go back and add image descriptions by my current standards to my old undescribed images, nor will I go back and upgrade older, outdated image descriptions that are substandard now.)
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Ironically, Mastodon isn't even particularly good at that. Not by overall Fediverse standards.
Mastodon handles CWs by having them put into a text field that was invented on identi.ca in 2008 as a summary field. Thus, CWs have to come from the poster. And the poster has no other choice but to force the same CWs upon absolutely everyone else, regardless of whether they need that particular CW or not, regardless of what other CWs someone may need. Your posts will be over-CW'd for some and under-CW'd for others.
What's even worse is that this and only this is deeply engrained in Mastodon's culture. From a Mastodon POV, it's completely unimaginable that it could possibly be any different. It's actually being enforced upon the whole Fediverse by Mastodon users.
CWs would be better if they didn't come from the poster. If they were automatically generated on the reader's side, individually for each reader and their needs, based on text filtering.
Mastodon can do that actually. But it's cumbersome. It's as cumbersome as Mastodon's filters altogether: Each keyword needs its own filter defined and adjusted. Next to no-one knows that Mastodon can do that, also because Twitter can't, and who expects Mastodon to have features that Twitter doesn't Lastly, it was introduced in October, 2022, with Mastodon 4.0, too late for it to become part of Mastodon's culture.
Now let's look at Hubzilla. (Friendica, which Hubzilla was indirectly derived from by its own creator, may be similar, but not quite as advanced can probably say more about it as a part-time Friendica user.)
For what Mastodon's filters could do before 4.0, Hubzilla only needs one blocklist. Adding a new keyword is as easy as adding a new line to the blocklist. For reader-side CW generation which Mastodon's filters learned in October, 2022, Hubzilla has an optional extra filter list named "NSFW". It has had it from its very beginnings, and it has inherited it from Friendica. Just about everyone in the whole software family agrees: Having your own CWs generated only for you is better than having the same CWs forced upon you as upon everyone else while misusing the summary/abstract field for it.
Hubzilla also has an allowlist for the whole channel. It optionally has one blocklist and one allowlist per contact so you can filter certain things coming from certain contacts and not coming from all the others. It supports regular expressions. And it has a very advanced filter syntax for the blocklists and allowlists that, for example, allows you to filter by whether a message is a repeat (Mastodon: boost), whether it's public or restricted, whether it's a top post or a comment, from whom it came etc. etc.
But self-moderation doesn't stop at filters on Hubzilla. There's also the permissions system, the second-most advanced one in the Fediverse, second only to Hubzilla's own descendants, (streams) and Forte, again created by the same developer. Hubzilla's permissions system works on up to three levels: for the whole channel (Mastodon: account), for each individual contact (Mastodon: follower/followed) and often also for individual content (posts/threads, images/media/other files etc.).
Some examples of you can do with the permissions system:
There's even more: You don't only own your own posts. You also own all comments on your posts. You and not whoever wrote them. This means you can moderate your own conversations by deleting comments from it. (That is, if someone on Mastodon comments on your post, and you remove it, you do not delete their Mastodon toot from their Mastodon account. You only remove it from your conversation.)
This is real serious self-moderation power.
Hubzilla is entirely built around moderating your own channel and your own stream yourself and, if it is activated, the public stream (Mastodon: local or federated timeline, depending on the admin configuration) along with it. Mastodon's filters work by deleting stuff from your inbox, but letting it onto and keeping it on the local or federated timeline regardless. Hubzilla's filters and permissions work by rejecting it altogether. Content that you reject, and that nobody else on your hub allows in, doesn't enter the hub at all and thus doesn't show up on the pubstream either.
By the way, this also works with forums (groups): You can make a forum private by only allowing its contacts to see its profile. You can make its membership private by only allowing its contacts to see its other contacts. You can hide it from directories. You can make its conversations private by limiting reading permission to only contacts.
As I've said, (streams) and Forte go another bit further.
They don't rely mostly on templates called "roles" to define the permissions of your channel and of your contacts. You can switch individual permissions on and off anytime.
They have an extra switch to let repeats in or not. Hubzilla needs a filter syntax line for that.
And they have the option to make reply control even more advanced: Next to entirely allowing and entirely disallowing comments, you can allow only your own contacts to comment on a certain post. You can generally allow comments on your posts for a certain period of time. And you can allow comments on a certain post only until a certain point in the future.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Den ewigen September haben wir lngst. Nur ist das hier der ewige November, und zwar seit November 2022. Ein bestndiger Zustrom von Newbies, die ber das Fediverse nix wissen, vor allem nicht, da es mehr ist als nur Mastodon und auch nicht auf Mastodon basiert, und von denen viele komplett lernresistent sind.
Die Leidtragenden sind dann die, die selbst nicht auf Mastodon sind, die aber von genau diesen Leuten behandelt werden, als wren sie auf Mastodon. Oder bekmpft, weil es sie im Mastodon-Fediverse doch eigentlich gar nicht geben darf. Die sich herumrgern mssen mit Sachen, die von solchen Leuten "frs Fediverse", aber hart nur gegen Mastodon gebaut worden und zu nichts anderem kompatibel sind.
CC:
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#Hashtag()
Basically, Sharkey receives fully standard Rich Text from Hubzilla. It manages to convert this Rich Text into its own Misskey-Flavored Markdown. But then its Markdown parser does not parse it and leaves the Markdown code visible to everyone. It simply doesn't expect there to be a hashtag character in front of an embedded link because, seriously, who'd ever do that and why!
Friendica would. In fact, Friendica does. It puts the hashtag character in front of the tag, as in outside the tag, as opposed to at the beginning of the tag. It has been doing that since its beginnings in 2010 because it was designed from the get-go to also federate with StatusNet from 2008. And StatusNet does hashtags the same way on its few remaining servers. In fact, so did Identi.ca from 2008, from which StatusNet emerged.
Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte do it, too, because they have inherited it from Friendica.
On StatusNet, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, a hashtag in a message looks like this:
#
Notice how the hashtag character has the same colour as the rest of the post text. And not the same colour as the rest of the hashtag. This means that the hashtag character is not part of the link. (To Mastodon users who don't know this: If something in a "toot" has a different colour from the rest of the "toot", it's a link. Even if it doesn't show a URL in plain sight.)
On , Mastodon, Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, the various Forkeys and a whole lot of other Fediverse software, a hashtag in a message looks like this:
Notice how now the hashtag character has the same colour as the rest of the hashtag. This means that the hashtag character is part of the link.
But why did Identi.ca do hashtags differently from Twitter Because Identi.ca did hashtags before Twitter. AFAIK, when Identi.ca was launched, it had support for hashtags right away. About one year before Twitter.
The hashtag itself had already been invented by the Twitter community. Chris Messina had already codified it in 2007. But it wasn't until 2009 that Twitter actually introduced a technological implementation to support it.
Again, Identi.ca must have had hashtags as early as 2008, and there was no way that Identi.ca creator Evan Prodromou could possibly predict what Twitter would do the following year. So he did what he thought was right and what actually made sense to him.
But nowadays, everybody "knows" that Twitter had the world's very first hashtag implementation ever because nobody, even in the Fediverse, has ever heard of Identi.ca. I mean, the majority of Fediverse users "know" that the Fediverse started with Mastodon.
You know, just like Officer James Barrett "knew" that there is no intelligent life outside Earth only a few minutes before he became Agent J of the Men In Black.
This is also why just about all Fediverse software that does hashtags the Twitter way expects everything to do hashtags the Twitter way. It does not expect hashtags to be done differently. And when a message comes in from Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte with hashtags in it, it fails at varying degrees of ungracefully.
Hashtags with the hashtag character outside the link are older than hashtags with the hashtag character inside that they're not only completely unexpected, that they cause software to malfunction, but the same software often can't even handle that malfunction. It's a miracle that the Friendica/Hubzilla family doesn't cause Fediverse servers to crash or even server databases to go corrupt by simply sending hashtags.
Mastodon used to be an exception of sorts, but only because, before version 4.0 from October, 2022, its HTML "sanitiser" actually ripped out any and all rich text code from incoming messages and left nothing but plain text behind. And then it didn't recognise hashtags in messages from outside Mastodon as hashtags at all.
When Mastodon 4.0 came and supported some rich text, including embedded links, it went haywire, of course. But then someone from Friendica and Hubzilla went in and complained about this malfunction and explained what happened, why it happened and why it was not Friendica and Hubzilla that did things wrong. Besides, if something utterly defaces "toots", then Mastodon developers do step in to stop it. After all, Mastodon has a few more of them at hand, paid, full-time professionals even. You have to give it that.
Which takes us back to Sharkey. Sharkey is developed by a small handful of individuals in their spare time. Granted, it's a soft fork of Misskey, so a lot of development work is done by the Misskey devs and taken over by the Sharkey devs, but they still have to weave the code changes coming from Misskey in and make them work with what's different on Sharkey.
So it turned out that (Link content warning: eye contact) . All that has happened since then until today was that Hazelnoot added two labels. But the bug report came with no explanations. In fact, it misattributed one of my Hubzilla posts as a Friendica post.
And in fact, it turned out that this is actually (Link content warning: Microsoft GitHub link, eye contact) . The bug report is a bit more elaborate, but the reporter still knew precious little about what's going on. So I wrote a comment in which I explained the bug from a Friendica/Hubzilla POV as well as what's going on on the technical side, and why the error has to be on Misskey's side.
I hope this will finally help get the bug fixed. Unfortunately, this fix would come too late for Iceshrimp. Iceshrimp-JS is a true Forkey, but in maintenance mode, so I guess only security patches and critical bugfixes will be merged from Misskey, if anything. And Iceshrimp.NET is a complete rewrite of a pre-this-fix Misskey fork, so the Iceshrimp devs probably don't know about this issue either. If it fails ungracefully upon receiving hashtags with the hashtag character outside, it will require its own bug report.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #So there's that nasty bug on Sharkey that mangles hashtags in messages from Hubzilla and probably also Friendica, (streams) and Forte. They always look like this:
#Hashtag()
Basically, Sharkey receives fully standard Rich Text from Hubzilla. It manages to convert this Rich Text into its own Misskey-Flavored Markdown. But then its Markdown parser does not parse it and leaves the Markdown code visible to everyone. It simply doesn't expect there to be a hashtag character in front of an embedded link because, seriously, who'd ever do that and why!
Friendica would. In fact, Friendica does. It puts the hashtag character in front of the tag, as in outside the tag, as opposed to at the beginning of the tag. It has been doing that since its beginnings in 2010 because it was designed from the get-go to also federate with StatusNet from 2008. And StatusNet does hashtags the same way on its few remaining servers. In fact, so did Identi.ca from 2008, from which StatusNet emerged.
Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte do it, too, because they have inherited it from Friendica.
On StatusNet, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, a hashtag in a message looks like this:
#
Notice how the hashtag character has the same colour as the rest of the post text. And not the same colour as the rest of the hashtag. This means that the hashtag character is not part of the link. (To Mastodon users who don't know this: If something in a "toot" has a different colour from the rest of the "toot", it's a link. Even if it doesn't show a URL in plain sight.)
On , Mastodon, Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, the various Forkeys and a whole lot of other Fediverse software, a hashtag in a message looks like this:
Notice how now the hashtag character has the same colour as the rest of the hashtag. This means that the hashtag character is part of the link.
But why did Identi.ca do hashtags differently from Twitter Because Identi.ca did hashtags before Twitter. AFAIK, when Identi.ca was launched, it had support for hashtags right away. About one year before Twitter.
The hashtag itself had already been invented by the Twitter community. Chris Messina had already codified it in 2007. But it wasn't until 2009 that Twitter actually introduced a technological implementation to support it.
Again, Identi.ca must have had hashtags as early as 2008, and there was no way that Identi.ca creator Evan Prodromou could possibly predict what Twitter would do the following year. So he did what he thought was right and what actually made sense to him.
But nowadays, everybody "knows" that Twitter had the world's very first hashtag implementation ever because nobody, even in the Fediverse, has ever heard of Identi.ca. I mean, the majority of Fediverse users "know" that the Fediverse started with Mastodon.
You know, just like Officer James Barrett "knew" that there is no intelligent life outside Earth only a few minutes before he became Agent J of the Men In Black.
This is also why just about all Fediverse software that does hashtags the Twitter way expects everything to do hashtags the Twitter way. It does not expect hashtags to be done differently. And when a message comes in from Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte with hashtags in it, it fails at varying degrees of ungracefully.
Hashtags with the hashtag character outside the link are older than hashtags with the hashtag character inside that they're not only completely unexpected, that they cause software to malfunction, but the same software often can't even handle that malfunction. It's a miracle that the Friendica/Hubzilla family doesn't cause Fediverse servers to crash or even server databases to go corrupt by simply sending hashtags.
Mastodon used to be an exception of sorts, but only because, before version 4.0 from October, 2022, its HTML "sanitiser" actually ripped out any and all rich text code from incoming messages and left nothing but plain text behind. And then it didn't recognise hashtags in messages from outside Mastodon as hashtags at all.
When Mastodon 4.0 came and supported some rich text, including embedded links, it went haywire, of course. But then someone from Friendica and Hubzilla went in and complained about this malfunction and explained what happened, why it happened and why it was not Friendica and Hubzilla that did things wrong. Besides, if something utterly defaces "toots", then Mastodon developers do step in to stop it. After all, Mastodon has a few more of them at hand, paid, full-time professionals even. You have to give it that.
Which takes us back to Sharkey. Sharkey is developed by a small handful of individuals in their spare time. Granted, it's a soft fork of Misskey, so a lot of development work is done by the Misskey devs and taken over by the Sharkey devs, but they still have to weave the code changes coming from Misskey in and make them work with what's different on Sharkey.
So it turned out that (Link content warning: eye contact) . All that has happened since then until today was that Hazelnoot added two labels. But the bug report came with no explanations. In fact, it misattributed one of my Hubzilla posts as a Friendica post.
And in fact, it turned out that this is actually (Link content warning: Microsoft GitHub link, eye contact) . The bug report is a bit more elaborate, but the reporter still knew precious little about what's going on. So I wrote a comment in which I explained the bug from a Friendica/Hubzilla POV as well as what's going on on the technical side, and why the error has to be on Misskey's side.
I hope this will finally help get the bug fixed. Unfortunately, this fix would come too late for Iceshrimp. Iceshrimp-JS is a true Forkey, but in maintenance mode, so I guess only security patches and critical bugfixes will be merged from Misskey, if anything. And Iceshrimp.NET is a complete rewrite of a pre-this-fix Misskey fork, so the Iceshrimp devs probably don't know about this issue either. If it fails ungracefully upon receiving hashtags with the hashtag character outside, it will require its own bug report.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Fediverse-Serversoftware fr "Microblogging" (). Ein Fork von Misskey, das aus Japan kommt ().
Im Prinzip so etwas wie Mastodon und auch mit Mastodon voll verbunden, d. h. Mastodon-Nutzer knnen Misskey- und Sharkey-Nutzern folgen und umgekehrt und mit ihnen kommunizieren. Aber Misskey ist um einiges mchtiger und reicher an Features als Mastodon, und Sharkey ist noch einmal mchtiger und reicher an Features als Misskey.
So haben beide ein Zeichenlimit von 3000 Zeichen, wo Mastodon nur 500 hat. Und auf Sharkey ist es dann auch noch konfigurierbar, ohne wie bei Mastodon die Software selbst umbauen zu mssen.
(An dieser Stelle bruchte es eigentlich eine Mastodon/Misskey/Sharkey-Featurevergleichstabelle wie meine Mastodon/Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte-Featurevergleichstabelle ().)
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
. I have news for Mr , & for his master, Mr : will NOT be the "52nd State", any more than will be the 51st! We're sick of US , & want NO MORE OF IT!
Why is it still January
la CREATURA
You get two posts today because I missed a few days and I didn't do a lot with this one.
I don't even know what this is, to be honest. Just......... lomg creatura
I guess I had a fun idea for a pose, but no character that would fit it, so I just drew whatever this thing is. Enjoy.
See more on Patreon and SubscribeStar -> <- Join my Discord server!
Irgendwie ist das doch nicht die bliche Verwendung von Hashtags in Beitrgen. Was ist der Hintergrund bei Hubzilla, dass das so gehandhabt wird
Das hat Hubzilla geerbt von Friendica, weil es umgebaut wurde aus einem Fork eines Forks von Friendica. Und Friendica hat es bernommen von StatusNet, weil es von vornherein mit StatusNet fderieren sollte. Und StatusNet hat es geerbt von Identi.ca.
Sie alle handhab(t)en Hashtags intern als Schlsselwrter, die keine Raute enthalten. Und sie stellen die Raute auerhalb des Link vor den Link, um zu signalisieren: Das hier ist ein Hashtag. Wenn man einen Post, einen Kommentar oder eine DM verschickt, wird aus dem Hashtag automatisch ein entsprechendes Konstrukt aus ungelinkter Raute plus Link aufs Schlsselwort generiert.
Das ist wie bei Namen: Auf allen war bzw. ist das kein Teil irgendeines Namen, nicht des Kurznamen, nicht des Langnamen. Der Kurzname, der Teil des Profil-Link ist, hat auch kein . Guck dir mal deine Erwhnung an: Das ist nicht Teil des Link, sondern steht vorm Link, und dein Langname ist erwhnt.
Warum "die" das anders gemacht haben als auf Twitter und Mastodon Ganz einfach: Weil "die" das vor Mastodon gemacht haben. Eigentlich sogar noch vor Twitter.
Identi.ca und StatusNet waren von 2008. Etwa acht Jahre vor Mastodon. Das war der eigentliche Urknall des Fediverse. Und StatusNet hatte meines Wissens damals schon offizielle Untersttzung fr Hashtags.
Warum hat es das nun anders gemacht als Twitter Weil es das vor Twitter gemacht hat.
Es war nmlich erst 2009, da Chris Messina offiziell Untersttzung fr Hashtags bei Twitter eingefhrt hat. Evan Prodromou, der Erfinder von Identi.ca, StatusNet und dem Fediverse, konnte unmglich etwa ein Jahr im voraus ahnen, wie Twitter mal Hashtags implementieren wird. Und die Twitter-Entwickler drften damals berhaupt nicht gewut haben, da auch nur Identi.ca existiert, geschweige denn, wie es Hashtags handhabt.
Friendica ging im Mai 2010 an den Start, etwa fnf Jahre und acht Monate vor Mastodon. Friendica basierte zwar auf einem eigenen Protokoll, war aber von vornherein in der Lage, sich mit StatusNet ber dessen eigenes OStatus-Protokoll zu verbinden. Praktischerweise hat der Friendica-Erfinder Mike Macgirvin gleich Identi.cas und StatusNets Handhabung von Hashtags bernommen. Zu diesem Zeitpunkt hatte Twitter Hashtags erst seit gut zehn Monaten.
Ende 2011 hat Mike Macgirvin Friendica geforkt, dann den Fork geforkt und diesen Fork namens Red (spter Red Matrix) dann ab 2012 komplett umgeschrieben. Zu diesem Zeitpunkt handhabte alles im Fediverse Hashtags noch auf dieselbe Art.
Um diese Zeit wurde StatusNet nach GNU social hardgeforkt, das wohl versuchte, mehr wie Twitter zu sein. Daher wurden auch die Hashtags wie auf Twitter ausgefhrt: mit der Raute als Teil des Schlsselworts und als Teil des Link. StatusNet verlor dann nach der 2012er Umstellung von Identi.ca auf pump.io seine Entwicklungsgrundlage und wurde 2013 kurzerhand nach GNU social gemerget, ohne aber die Hashtags wieder auf die alte Form umzustellen.
Im Mrz 2015 wurde erstmals Hubzilla verffentlicht, das entstanden war, indem die Red Matrix umbenannt und massiv erweitert worden war.
Erst im Januar 2016 kam dann Mastodon, Pleroma kurze Zeit spter. Weil beide ursprnglich alternative Frontends fr GNU social sein sollten, bernahmen sie von GNU social die Twitter-Hashtags.
Zu diesem Zeitpunkt sahen weder die neuen Entwickler, die Friendica seit Ende 2011 hatte, noch Mike Macgirvin es ein, warum sie ihre Software unbedingt an Mastodon anpassen sollten. Mike, der inzwischen zwei Nachfahren von Hubzilla betreut, sieht es bis heute nicht ein. Eher baut er serverseitige Gegenmittel gegen Mastodon in seine Software ein.
Misskey landete meines Wissens erst 2018 im Fediverse, nachdem es ActivityPub adoptiert hatte. Das hatte brigens Hubzilla als erstes, seit Juli 2017, und Mastodon als zweites, seit September.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
Scaling long-running autonomous coding
-Running
How Long Is an Essay A Definitive Length Guide QA Realm
Tags: , , , , , , ,
Dorenas World, the oldest German-speaking grid and the third-oldest of all grids, is going to this week. Due to real-life influences, the schedule is somewhat cut short.All times are in grid time = PST.
Friday, January 16th (actual anniversary date)
11:00: DJ Anachron Young (open end)
Event location: Rock-House, Nihilon
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Nihilon/216/167/22
Saturday, January 17th
10:00: Reading by Rubeus Helgerud
11:00: Wolem Wobbit live "Still Alive"
Afterwards: DJ Rubeus Helgerud (open end)
Event location: Festival ground, Landing
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Landing/140/149/22
# # # # # # # # # #Dorenas World, the oldest German-speaking grid and the third-oldest of all grids, is going to this week. Due to real-life influences, the schedule is somewhat cut short.
All times are in grid time = PST.
Friday, January 16th (actual anniversary date)
11:00: DJ Anachron Young (open end)
Event location: Rock-House, Nihilon
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Nihilon/216/167/22
Saturday, January 17th
10:00: Reading by Rubeus Helgerud
11:00: Wolem Wobbit live "Still Alive"
Afterwards: DJ Rubeus Helgerud (open end)
Event location: Festival ground, Landing
hop://dorenas-world.de:8002/Landing/140/149/22
# # # # # # # # # # Die wollen kein soziales Netzwerk. Die wollen ein soziales Medium. Etwas, wo sie einfach nur Content rauspusten knnen, ohne mit irgendjemandem interagieren zu mssen.
Knnen sie auch im Fediverse haben: ein Marktschreierkonto auf (wenn's das da noch gibt).
Oder auf knnten sie Verbindungsanfragen automatisch akzeptieren und niemandem das Liken und Kommentieren und das Zusenden eigener Posts erlauben (weil sie ja keine Interaktion wollen, wobei das auf Mastodon & Co. keiner merken wird, da das alles nicht erlaubt ist). Zustzlich knnten sie die RSS-/Atom-Feeds ihrer eigenen offiziellen Pressemitteilungen abonnieren und als Channel Sources automatisch reposten, um fr mehr Content und mehr Aktivitt ohne mehr Arbeit zu sorgen.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
LIVING COLOUR's WILL CALHOUN Hopes Band's Long-Awaited New Album Will Be Completed By The Spring
FANMEETING RECAP VERIVERY WARMS HEARTS AND LIGHTS UP SINGAPORE AT HELLO VERI LONG TIME FANMEETING
Das mit dem
# ist eine Hubzilla-"Spezialitt", die auf Hubzilla selbst nicht auftritt, von der also die allermeisten Hubzilla-Nutzer nicht wissen. , : Das kommt von der Bookmarks-App. Die erzeugt diese Zeichen, die man auf Hubzilla nicht sieht, sonst aber berall.Das mit dem kaputten Hashtag liegt daran, da Friendica und seine Nachfahren Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte bei Hashtags die Raute nicht mit zum Teil des Link machen.
Auf Twitter/ ist die Raute bei Hashtags Teil des Link: . Mastodon, Misskey, all ihre Forks und viele anderen Microblogging-Anwendungen haben das so bernommen.
Auf Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte ist die Raute bei Hashtag nicht Teil des Link: #. Der Grund: Friendica ist kein Twitter-Ersatz, sondern eine Facebook-Alternative. Und Friendica ging schon im Mai 2010 an den Start mit genau diesen Hashtags. Das war, bevor Facebook Hashtags hatte, und das war, bevor es en vogue war, Twitter zu klonen.
Hubzilla ist umgebaut worden aus einem Fork eines Forks von Friendica. (streams) ist ein Fork eines Forks dreier Forks eines Forks (eines Forks) von Hubzilla. Forte ist ein Fork von (streams). Alles von Friendicas eigenem Erfinder aus der Taufe gehoben. Also haben sie alle Friendicas Verhalten geerbt, auch weil es keinerlei Veranlassung gab, das zu ndern.
Das Problem ist nun: Zum einen rechnet Sharkey nicht mit Hashtags, bei denen die Raute davor statt mit drin steht (das tut Mastodon auch nicht, aber Mastodon kann das einigermaen abfedern, seit da mal jemand einen Issue eingereicht hat). Zum anderen kann Sharkey augenscheinlich auch nicht damit umgehen, da irgendwelche Inhalte in irgendwas anderem als Misskey-Flavored Markdown formatiert sind.
Auf Hubzilla sind Posts, Kommentare und DMs intern in BBcode formatiert. PubCrawl, das die optionale ActivityPub-Anbindung zur Verfgung stellt, wandelt den BBcode allerdings in standardkonformes Rich Text Format um, das meines Wissens so auch in der offiziellen ActivityPub-Spezifikation empfohlen wird.
Mastodon nimmt das RTF, wandelt es in HTML um, schickt es durch seinen HTML-Sanitiser, der alles Unliebsame rausschmeit (vor Mastodon 4.0 hat der Sanitiser noch alles rausgeschmissen und nur noch Reintext briggelassen), und zeigt das Ergebnis dann zuverlssig an.
Sharkey scheint dagegen nur gebaut zu sein gegen sich selbst (sendet wohl MFM), Misskey (sendet wohl auch MFM), eventuell andere Forkeys (senden wohl auch alle MFM) und Mastodon (kann gar keine Textformatierung erzeugen und sendet daher auch keine). Es scheint nicht damit zu rechnen, da sich irgendwas an die Spec hlt und RTF sendet.
Irgendjemand sollte sich also mal mit Fehlermeldungen an die Misskey- und Sharkey-Entwickler wenden.
Hier mal ein Test (dieser Kommentar kommt auch von Hubzilla): Funktioniert das hier
- Stichpunktliste
- fett
- kursiv
- unterstrichen
Code
Sorry, jetzt mu ich selbst eine Zeile Hashtags einbauen, auch, um zuverlssig die Filter, die mglicherweise gerade auf Mastodon viele im Einsatz haben, auslsen zu knnen.
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High-Power Fast Charging Is The Leading Cause For EV Battery Degradation: Report
Batteries in electric vehicles that regularly use 100-plus-kilowatts fast chargers degrade faster than those that rely p
-range
Failed U.S. Military Effort in Africa is on the Chopping Block
The U.S. attack on Venezuela and abduction of its president Nicols Maduro was proof that after months of
:ArticlePost :Sunday :English :Article :Factiva :SmartNews :SocialFlow :NationalSecurity :World :11.00 :1000-1999
Because they're probably stuck at freshly-switched-from-the--iPhone-app-to-the-Mastodon-iPhone-app level of Fediverse knowledge. They probably don't simply believe that the Fediverse is only Mastodon. No, they must believe that the Fediverse is only one server, one website, namely mastodon.social. They might be unable to imagine that multiple Twitter-like websites that run the same code can communicate with each other. After all, they haven't heard of anything like this having happened before.
Which also means that the guys behind the Forkiverse think that their Forkiverse is every but as much a centralised, single-website walled garden silo as they think the Fediverse, i.e. mastodon.social, is. And that there are exactly two websites running Mastodon code now, namely mastodon.social, for which the Mastodon code was probably developed, and the Forkiverse.
If that's so, they're probably going to go completely insane once they discover that people on mastodon.social start leaving content in their Forkiverse. Or people from wholly different Mastodon servers, something they might not even expect to exist.
And that says nothing about how they'll react upon the first comment on a Forkiverse post from something that's very much, very obviously, very blatantly not Mastodon. Like Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte. Something that does everything differently from Mastodon, from 33,000 times more characters to text formatting to bullet-point lists to headlines to very different-looking hashtags and mentions.
I mean, I know that Mastodon users who got used to a Mastodon-only Fediverse frequently lose their minds when they come across the first message that's obviously not from Mastodon, and whose author states and proves that this is not a Mastodon toot. And I've seen at least one tech journalist insist in Mastodon being an enclosed network itself and himself being right because he, very much unlike those filthy amateurs that drivel about Calckey and Friendica and Hubzilla and whatnot, is a journalist and therefore a professional.
But imagine you know next to nothing about Mastodon, other than that mastodon.social is a website that's an alternative to , and that it's running on an open-source server application that's also named Mastodon. And then you set up your own website with the same code. And you think it's every bit a walled garden as and as mastodon.social straight out of the box. And then you, as one of the admins and site owners, receive a comment on one of your posts that so very much blatantly not even a Mastodon toot.
Brix will be shat. This will hurt horribly.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # #Why does someone call one single Fediverse server, one single website "-verse"
Because they're probably stuck at freshly-switched-from-the--iPhone-app-to-the-Mastodon-iPhone-app level of Fediverse knowledge. They probably don't simply believe that the Fediverse is only Mastodon. No, they must believe that the Fediverse is only one server, one website, namely mastodon.social. They might be unable to imagine that multiple Twitter-like websites that run the same code can communicate with each other. After all, they haven't heard of anything like this having happened before.
Which also means that the guys behind the Forkiverse think that their Forkiverse is every but as much a centralised, single-website walled garden silo as they think the Fediverse, i.e. mastodon.social, is. And that there are exactly two websites running Mastodon code now, namely mastodon.social, for which the Mastodon code was probably developed, and the Forkiverse.
If that's so, they're probably going to go completely insane once they discover that people on mastodon.social start leaving content in their Forkiverse. Or people from wholly different Mastodon servers, something they might not even expect to exist.
And that says nothing about how they'll react upon the first comment on a Forkiverse post from something that's very much, very obviously, very blatantly not Mastodon. Like Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte. Something that does everything differently from Mastodon, from 33,000 times more characters to text formatting to bullet-point lists to headlines to very different-looking hashtags and mentions.
I mean, I know that Mastodon users who got used to a Mastodon-only Fediverse frequently lose their minds when they come across the first message that's obviously not from Mastodon, and whose author states and proves that this is not a Mastodon toot. And I've seen at least one tech journalist insist in Mastodon being an enclosed network itself and himself being right because he, very much unlike those filthy amateurs that drivel about Calckey and Friendica and Hubzilla and whatnot, is a journalist and therefore a professional.
But imagine you know next to nothing about Mastodon, other than that mastodon.social is a website that's an alternative to , and that it's running on an open-source server application that's also named Mastodon. And then you set up your own website with the same code. And you think it's every bit a walled garden as and as mastodon.social straight out of the box. And then you, as one of the admins and site owners, receive a comment on one of your posts that so very much blatantly not even a Mastodon toot.
Brix will be shat. This will hurt horribly.
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SNOT Has Completed Five Songs With New Singer ANDY KNAPP Long-Awaited Album Information Coming 'Soon'
Als Nutzer kann man es aber nicht installieren, sondern nur als Serveradmin und dann wie schon angedeutet nur fr alle Nutzer gleichermaen.
Es funktioniert auch mit Mastodon.
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Once again, long nose = long cock
cock, nose = long cock,
The point is that if someone wants to connect to you from Hubzilla, they might have a very detailed profile, maybe even several profiles (this is possible on Hubzilla), but they only give permission to access their profile to their contacts or to certain contacts and not to the general public. So while there is a profile, you are not allowed to access it. Unlike Friendica, Hubzilla's Web UI doesn't even tell you up-front that you aren't allowed to access the profile. And, of course, neither does Mastodon's Web UI, and neither do any Mastodon apps.At the same time, they could actually be very active posters. But for privacy and security reasons, they don't post in public. All their posts have restricted permissions. Alternatively, they do post in public, but they only grant permission to see their stream of posts on their channel to their contacts or even only to certain contacts. Either way, you as a non-contact are not allowed to access their posts.
Imagine you, on Mastodon, could allow only your followers and followed to read your profile. And you could allow only your followers and followed to access the timeline on your profile page. Both is absolutely possible on Hubzilla. Or you only ever post to "followers only" and never in public, so your posts don't show up in your timeline.
Either way, there's a profile, and there are posts, but you are not allowed to access them. So to you, it appears like a blank and inactive account.
Still, Hubzilla does little to nothing in terms of accessibility. In its software family that spans a decade and a half, it's the only server application that requires coding to add alt-texts.
Friendica may have introduced a Mastodon-like entry field. (streams) and Forte allow for alt-texts to be stored with images in the built-in filespace so they're automatically added when an image is embedded into a post or a comment. On Hubzilla, the alt-text must still be manually grafted into the image-embedding BBcode. Even that information was only spread via hearsay until it was added to the official documentation last year or so.
So the reason why there's hardly ever any alt-text coming from Hubzilla is not because Hubzilla staunchly refuses to replace its own culture with Mastodon's (which it does, by the way, and for very good reasons). It's partly because adding alt-texts is so tedious and requires what amounts to "programming". And it's partly because since Hubzilla's post and comment editors have no UI elements for alt-texts, and neither do the file and image uploaders, hardly anyone on Hubzilla even knows about alt-texts and that it's possible to add them on Hubzilla in the first place.
Hubzilla's entire UI/UX is mostly stuck in 2012 with parts of it dating back to 2010. That was when accessibility didn't matter for hobbyist projects. And it was developed by someone who's much more of a protocol developer than a UI expert. There hasn't changed that much about it since back then except for new features having their UI elements glued on in sometimes seemingly random places.
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After cumming
! Falls du Hubzilla mal in Aktion sehen willst:Zunchst einmal, das hier ist mein Kanal:
Das hier ist mein ffentliches Profil:
Das Farbschema nebst Hintergrundbild ist brigens von mir. Das ist alles einstellbar. Das Layout und die Navigation habe ich auch ein bichen frisiert.
Es gibt einen ungefhr monatlich stattfindenden deutschsprachigen Hubzilla-Workshop. Der findet statt auf BigBlueButton, du brauchst also nur einen Webbrowser, ein Mikro und eine Abhre. Er hat einen eigenen Hubzilla-Kanal: . Dem kann man meines Wissens auch von Mastodon aus folgen. Alternativ kann man der Organisatorin folgen (Mastodon: Hubzilla: Friendica: ).
Folgenswert ist auch der schreibt fters mal ber Hubzilla. Er hat auch das komplette Hilfesystem fr Hubzilla auf Deutsch und Englisch neu geschrieben (), und er betreibt die Hubzilla KnowledgeDB () und ein deutschsprachiges Supportforum ().
Auf dem zweiten Workshop im Oktober 2025 hat Pepe zunchst einmal einen Vortrag gehalten ber den Einstieg in Hubzilla. Hier ist das Video:
Auf demselben Workshop habe ich einen Vortrag gehalten ber Privacy-Gruppen (= Mastodon-Listen auf Steroiden und Koks) und Kontaktrollen (gibt's auf Mastodon so nicht mal ansatzweise). Hier ist das Video:
Auf dem dritten Workshop im November ging es darum, wie auf Hubzilla gepostet wird. Das ist an sich schon ein gewaltig viel greres Thema als das "Trten" auf Mastodon. Da hat Pepe auch einen Vortrag generell ber das Posten gehalten (Videos scheint es nicht zu geben Prsentation: ) und ich einen ber die Unterschiede beim Posten zwischen Hubzilla und vor allem Mastodon (wieder kein Video Prsentation: ).
Der erste Workshop im September war eigentlich nur ein Testballon, knnte aber trotzdem interessant gewesen sein. Da ging es um verschiedene Einstellungen, um Hubzillas mchtige Filter und um verschiedene Tips & Tricks. Hier ist das Video:
Die nchsten zwei Workshops sind am Mittwoch, dem 28. Januar, und am Mittwoch, dem 11. Februar, jeweils um 19.30 Uhr. In beiden geht es um Hubzillas mchtiges und hochkomplexes Berechtigungssystem. Das ist so ein groes Thema, da wir beschlossen haben, es auf zwei Workshops auszudehnen. Das heit, den am 11. Februar verstehst du wahrscheinlich nur, wenn du am 28. Januar schon da warst.
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Permissions meet groups
It gets really interesting when the permissions system is applied to groups. As the owner of a Hubzilla forum, you have the following options:
- You can control who can see the profile of the forum, i.e. what it is all about. For example, you can only allow confirmed members to see it. Or, in fact, you can only allow certain members to see it by assigning a specific contact role to them. Or you could make it Fediverse-specific: Only those who can be recognised as logged-in Fediverse users can see the profile. Or you can hide it altogether.
- You can control who can see the contacts, i.e. the forum members, all the same. Like, for example, only a chosen inner circle may be allowed to see the list of forum members, but Joe Average Forum Member is not.
- Likewise, you can control who can see what has already happened in the forum when visiting the group profile.
- You can choose to hide the whole forum from the directory, the place where people go to find new contacts (the mastodon.social equivalent is ), to keep the forum secret altogether by keeping people from finding it accidentally or by searching.
(streams) and Forte have four different types of group channels instead:
- Normal: public, group members may upload media to the group's file storage
- Limited: public, but group members may not upload media to the group's file storage
- Moderated: like Limited, but by default, posts and comments by new group members have to be approved by the admins members may have their permissions upgraded and post and comment without approval once they've proven themselves worthy
- Restricted: private, profile is only visible to group members, stream of posts and comments is only visible to group members, posts and comments are only sent to group members, but group members may upload media to the group's file storage
As I've already said, you can grant individual permissions to your contacts on your personal channel. But you can grant individual permissions to forum users on a forum channel just the same. You can have regular users. You can have users with certain extra privileges. You can use the permissions system to silence users without kicking and blocking them.
And you can use the permissions system to appoint extra forum admins/mods. You can grant contacts permission to administer your forum. Now, this requires for your channel to recognise visitors and their identities to see what permissions they shall have and to grant them these permissions. And this requires OpenWebAuth. So right now, you can only make forum members from Hubzilla, (streams), Forte, Friendica, Mitra and Tootik additional admins/mods. But you can.
(9/9)
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Permissions, part 3: At post level
As I've already said, whenever you write a post to start a new thread, you also define the permissions of this post. Of this post and of all replies.
Let's translate this to Mastodon again.
You know the toot visibility button, I guess. Let's assume it looks and works somewhat different. Especially the visibility options.
"Public" still exists. It does what it says on the button: It makes your toot public. Oh, and now, it also makes all replies public. There's no replying to your toot with a DM.
The other three don't exist.
Instead, as the second option, you have "Only me".
Right below, all your lists are listed up. You can pick one of them. You can send your toot to everyone on one specific list of yours and to only those on that list, all without having to mention them. Better yet: Only those on that list are permitted to see your toot. And only those on that list are permitted to see any reply to your toot. Killer feature: They can see each other's replies, and they can reply to each other.
Below that, all groups that you follow are listed up. Again, you can pick one of them. This will have the effect that your toot will go to the group, and it will be forwarded by the group to all its members, but it will not go to your followers unless they're also in that group.
Below that, there's "Custom selection". This opens another window with each one of your lists and each one of your followed accounts, each with a green "Allow" button and a red "Don't allow" button. Here, you can put together a choice of lists and single accounts whom to send your toot to and a choice of lists and single accounts whom not to send your toot to. Again, only those who receive the toot are also permitted to see it, and only them are permitted to see any of the replies, and no-one can ever change these permissions.
What sense this makes
Imagine you have a list with a certain group of friends in it. One of them will soon celebrate their birthday, and you want to organise a birthday surprise for them. So you send a toot to that list with everyone in it, but without that person who'll soon celebrate their birthday so you won't ruin the surprise for them.
Or: Imagine you have lists according to which languages people speak. Like, you have a German list, and you have an English list. Then you can put together an audience for a German toot from lists and single followed users, but exclude the English list so that those who don't understand German anyway won't receive that toot.
By the way: This also covers DMs. And this means that DMs are actually private.
As Mastodon is right now, you can DM Alice, you can have a conversation with Alice, but Alice could mention Bob and pull him into the conversation. This also gives Bob the opportunity to read the whole thread because he has access to it now. Mastodon only defines to whom a message is sent, but not who is allowed to see it.
In this version of Mastodon, when you DM Alice, you only grant Alice permission to see your toot and everything else in the thread. Now, Alice can mention Bob all she wants, but she can't pull him into the thread. Bob won't even receive the toot with his mention in it. He is not permitted to see it. You have not granted him permission to see the start toot, and thus, you have not granted him permission to see any of the replies, including the one in which Alice mentions him. Alice cannot change any permissions in the thread. Neither can you, by the way. The moment you send the start toot, all permissions are permanently set in stone for the whole thread.
This also makes dogpiling by extra mentions in DMs impossible.
Also, this provides for very effective quote-post control. It isn't allowed to boost posts that aren't public, including replies. It isn't allowed either to Mastodon-style-quote, as in quote-post, posts that aren't public, including replies.
These DMs have another advantage of DMs on Mastodon-as-it-is-now: If you send a DM to Alice and Bob, Bob receives Alice's replies, and Alice receives Bob's replies, and the two can reply to one another.
Oh, by the way, there's another nifty button. A speech bubble. With this button, you can allow or disallow replies to your post. Mind you, again, this only works when you start a thread. You cannot allow or disallow replies to a reply that you post.
Now, how does Mastodon-as-it-is-now handle DMs from Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte It sees them as Mastodon DMs, and it treats them like Mastodon DMs. The downside is, if I send a restricted-permission post to Alice on Mastodon and Bob on Mastodon, both perceive it as a Mastodon DM. Both can only reply to and converse with me. They can't see each other's replies, and they can't reply to each other.
(8/9)
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Permissions, part 3: At contact level
Let's go one level further down. The second level of Hubzilla's permission system is per contact. On Mastodon, that'd be those whom you follow.
If Mastodon was like Hubzilla, you'd have the possibility to create permission templates which you can then assign to those whom you follow. (Hubzilla calls them "contact roles", by the way.)
Like, you could make one template for those whom you really trust. You grant all permissions in that template.
Then you could make one that's more privacy-oriented. You only grant permission to send you toots, fave and reply to your toots and send you DMs.
In theory, you could also make one for those whom you absolutely must follow, but whose toots you don't want. In this one, you only grant permission to fave and reply to your toots and send you DMs. This, however, only makes sense on something that works like Facebook, something like Hubzilla, where you can only confirm follow requests by also following back because connections are always mutual by default.
Then you could go to your list of followed accounts. And you could edit and configure them, one by one. You could choose which of these permission templates is assigned to them and thereby what you allow them to do. While you're already there, you could also, for example, add them to lists or remove them from lists.
There's one catch, though: If you grant a permission for your whole account, you automatically grant it to everyone whom you follow. You cannot forbid one of your followed something your account generally allows. So if you want to be able to choose whether someone is allowed to do something or not, you must not allow it for your whole account, and instead, you must allow it followed by followed.
(streams) and Forte make things a great deal easier than Hubzilla, by the way: They don't require such templates anymore. Instead, when you go edit a contact, you'll see one on-off switch for each permission, and you can turn each permission on or off right there, right then (provided it isn't inherited from the channel). You still have such templates, but they only serve to grant the same set of permissions to a whole lot of contacts without having to click single permissions on or off for all of them.
(7/9)
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Permissions, part 2: At channel level
The top level of Hubzilla's permissions system is the whole channel. On Mastodon, that'd be your account and everything that happens on it.
Translated to Mastodon again, for each of the above permissions, your account would have seven or eight choices whom to grant the corresponding permission:
- Anyone on the internet (only available where this makes sense, it's mostly viewing permissions, but it also includes "Can fave and reply to your toots")
- Anyone in the Fediverse
- Either anyone on Mastodon or anyone using ActivityPub*
- Anyone on the same server as you (mastodon.social in your case)
- Anyone who follows you**
- Any mutual followers
- Only those of your mutual followers whom you've explicitly granted that permission
- Nobody but you yourself
*It's unclear what exactly this option means. See, Hubzilla is not based on ActivityPub. It is based on its own protocol, Zot. When it was created, it was the only server software that used Zot, so limiting permissions to Hubzilla and limiting permissions to whatever uses Zot had the same effect, seeing as Hubzilla could and still can also connect to a whole lot of other things using a whole lot of other protocols. So nowadays, "Anybody in this network" may mean anybody using Zot which means anybody on Hubzilla or (streams), or it may mean anybody on Hubzilla which means just that, excluding (streams).
**This translates to Mastodon badly. Basically, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte know three states of connection. Either a Mastodon follow request, that's a "contact". Or a mutual follower, that's a "confirmed contact" because it's listed on your connections page, and you have control over that connection. Or only you follow someone, that's a "confirmed contact", too, because, again, because it's listed on your connections page, and you have control over that connection. The concept of confirmed follower doesn't exist because confirming a connection request will automatically make it a mutual connection. Remember we aren't talking about Twitter followers and Twitter followed, but about Faceboook friends.
The choices on (streams) and Forte, translated to Mastodon, are:
- Anyone on the internet (only available where this makes sense, it's mostly viewing permissions, but it also includes "Can fave and reply to your toots")
- Anyone in the Fediverse
- Any mutual followers
- Only you and those of your mutual followers whom you've explicitly granted that permission
To stick with Mastodon equivalents, there are a few more settings on Hubzilla (as for (streams) and Forte, I've covered them in the previous comment already).
I guess you already know the switch that hides your account from Google and other search engines and the switch that makes your account automatically accept follow requests.
You know that you can mention anyone out of the blue on Mastodon, regardless of whether they follow you or you follow them or not, and they're always notified Imagine this being notified is optional. And off by default. On Hubzilla, both is the case.
Okay, so, next, you don't allow anyone on the internet to reply to your toots. But there's an option that "half-allows" this: Anyone on the internet can send replies to your toots, even if they don't have any Fediverse account at all. Now it comes: You have to approve these replies. You have a green button that you can click, and the reply becomes visible, and it's added to the thread to which it belongs. Before then, nobody can see the reply but you. You also have a red button, and when you click it, the reply is rejected and deleted.
There are two clear use-cases for this. One is when you want absolute control over who replies what to you. Then you don't allow anyone to reply to your toots, but you activate this option. When someone does reply, you can choose whether to let the reply through or delete it.
The other one is a use-case that doesn't work on Mastodon, namely when you want to run a Hubzilla channel as a fully public long-form blog with a target audience that isn't limited to the Fediverse, and you want everyone to be able to comment on your posts, even without having some Fediverse account and following you first, but you want to keep spam out.
Lastly, there's the option that if you don't allow everyone to see your images and other media at , these images and other media can still be seen attached to toots by those who are allowed to see the toots that they're attached to.
(6/9)
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Permissions, part 1: Introduction
Now allow me to explain Hubzilla's permissions system to you. From a Mastodon point of view again.
Hubzilla's permission system works on three levels. In Mastospeak, the first level is your entire account.
The second level is everyone whom you follow, individually. Like, you can go to your list of followed accounts and click on them and configure them. Among other things, you can assign to them a set of permissions that, usually, you'll first define. You'll probably have multiple such sets of permissions.
(Yes, this completely leaves out those who only follow you, and whom you don't follow back. Such a thing does not exist on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. That is, it does, but you don't have a list of these, and you can't configure these, because they can't do much anyway as long as you don't follow them.)
And the third level is each toot that is not a reply, and then that toot forces its own permissions hard upon all toots that reply to it. If you reply to someone else's toot, your toot will have the same permissions as the start toot with no way for you to change them.
Translated to Mastodon, Hubzilla offers the following permissions:
- Can see your toots when visiting your Mastodon account at
- Can send their toots onto your timeline (I'm being serious here, you can literally follow someone and forbid them to send you their toots)
- Can see your profile
- Can see your lists of followers and followed when visiting your Mastodon account at
- Can see both the images and other media in your toots and the images and other media you've tooted at
- Can fave and reply to your toots (those of your toots that aren't replies)
- Can send you DMs
In addition, there are more permissions that don't translate to Mastodon because they cover features that Mastodon doesn't have:
- Can upload images and other files and modify existing files at
(because is not a managed cloud file storage, and the only way to add images or other media there is by you tooting them) - Can see the webpages you've built on your account
(because Mastodon doesn't have webpages) - Can see the pages in the wikis you've built on your account
(because Mastodon doesn't have wikis) - Can edit the webpages you've built on your account
(because Mastodon doesn't have webpages) - Can edit the pages in the wikis you've built on your account
(because Mastodon doesn't have wikis) - Can send you a toot by visiting your Mastodon account at and using the toot editor that's present there to send a toot straight to your "wall"
(because Mastodon doesn't have a wall, Mastodon doesn't have a toot editor on your account page for people who aren't you, and Mastodon doesn't have this entire feature) - Can like or dislike any element in your profile at
(because liking or disliking things in profiles is not possible on Mastodon) - Can chat with me
(because Mastodon doesn't have a chat) - Can automatically repost my toots through their account
(because Mastodon doesn't have this feature either) - Can do absolutely anything on my account that I can, just by visiting
(not possible for a whole lot of reasons)
Translated to Mastodon again, (streams) and Forte offer the following permission settings, some of which are yes/no switches, some are numbers or text fields:
- Automatically confirm follow requests (yes/no)
- Allow replies on your start toots from
- Manually allow disallowed replies (yes/no)
- Only allow replies on your start toots for so many days (number)
- Allow DMs from
- Allow to see your followers and followed
- Allow to full-text search your account
- Allow non-followed-non-followers to fave your toots (yes/no)
- Be notified about non-followed mentioning you (yes/no)
- Not if at least so many accounts are mentioned (number) (this is spam prevention)
- Receive toots from non-followed if they contain any of these hashtags (same as following hashtags, only that this is one text field and not a bunch of followed "accounts")
- Not if at least so many hashtags are in the toot (number) (again, this is spam prevention)
- Don't allow replies to replies from non-followed (yes/no) (reply guy filter)
- Show a timeline of your own toots (yes/no)
- Add your account to the directory (yes/no)
- Hide your account from Google and other search engines (yes/no)
- Delete toots and their replies from your timeline if you haven't interacted with them after so many days (number)
- Allow toots from your followed accounts that are replies in threads starting with toots from accounts that you don't follow
Again, there are permissions that don't translate well to Mastodon:
list
(Doesn't make sense on Mastodon because if someone wants to follow you, you do not have to follow them back on (streams) and Forte, confirming a follow request does make you follow them back)
(Mastodon doesn't have nomadic identity)
(Mastodon doesn't show whether you're online anyway, it doesn't even have this feature)/list
That said, some of these permissions don't make sense from a Mastodon point of view, namely those that handle what people can see when visiting your profile at . There would have be some way to identify them to grant them the permissions you've given them.
Hubzilla has such a way, as do (streams) and Forte. It's OpenWebAuth, a "magic sign-on" system created by the creator of these four for a Hubzilla fork that was backported to Hubzilla and inherited by (streams) and Forte. These three can recognise logins to grant guest permissions, and their logins can be recognised. There are a few more Fediverse applications whose logins can be recognised. This was actually also developed for Mastodon and ready to be merged in, but the patch was actually silently rejected.
(5/9)
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Events
Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte have the option to announce events in new posts. Mastodon can receive and show these posts.
However, Mastodon has no way to handle the actual event part. Like, you can't confirm your participation in an event on Mastodon. Mastodon doesn't know events. Mastodon has no buttons or other UI elements for interacting with events. And Mastodon doesn't have an event calendar either which you'd add the event to when confirming your participation.
There are also events with no announcement post. For example, birthdays. Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte have a dedicated birthday field in their profiles, much unlike Mastodon. For example, I have a "birthday" in my public profile. When someone on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) or Forte connects to me, and I confirm that connection, my "birthday" will be added to their event calendar, and they will be notified about my "birthday" every year. This might also work for users on PieFed which has an event calendar, too, although I'm not sure if PieFed understands these birthday fields.
(4/9)
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Groups, part 3: Replying to a thread, and how conversations work
If you want to reply, just reply. It's good manners to mention whomever you're directly replying to, and even that only if you're replying to a reply. But you don't have to mention anyone to reach anyone. Even then, your reply will be boosted to everyone who has received the top post.
Even if you reply to Carol who has replied to Bob who has replied to Alice who has started a thread in the group.
Within Mastodon, you'd have to mention Carol so she receives and sees your reply, you'd have to mention Bob so he receives and sees your reply, you'd have to mention Alice so she receives and sees your reply.
Conversations on Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte work much more like on Facebook: Your reply will go past Carol. Past Bob. Past Alice. Straight to the group account/channel. From there to Alice because she has started the conversation. And to Bob and Carol because they have received the quote-post of Alice's post. And to everyone else who has received the quote-post of Alice's post.
Now, how does everyone see your reply
At this point, it's important to say that a Friendica feed or a Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte stream looks vastly different from a Twitter feed or a Mastodon timeline and much more like a Facebook feed. Again, that's because Friendica was a Facebook alternative long before Twitter clones became the default. And Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte are direct descendants of Friendica with largely the same purpose. So no mimicking Twitter's behaviour here.
What does your Mastodon timeline look like Single posts with no context. And more single posts with no context. You receive a new post, it immediately shows up at the top of your timeline as a single post with no context. You have no idea how many unread messages you have. You want to see the context of a post, you have to click and click and click.
Facebook doesn't show you single-post-with-no-context piecemeal. Neither do Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. They always show you entire conversations with the top post and with all comments.
Imagine your Mastodon timeline. But instead of single posts with no context, you always see entire conversations with the top post and all replies that is, you actually only see the last three replies, but you can easily unfold the thread view and see everything.
Imagine whenever someone replies to a post that you already have in your timeline, you automatically receive that reply.
Imagine that you have a little counter of unread messages somewhere. When you receive a new post, the counter goes up by one. When you receive a new reply, the counter goes up by one. But neither that new post nor that new reply is automatically added to the top of your timeline.
Now you click the counter of unread messages. Out comes a list of unread messages. Not the messages proper. A list, including who sent them and, if that's the case, whom they reply to (not as in whom they directly reply to, as in Carol in the above example, but who wrote the top post, as in Alice in the above example).
You can click on any item in the list. Imagine you do. You will leave the timeline view. You will be shown only that one conversation with the top post and the comments. And the view will focus on the new comment and flag it as seen, and the counter of unread messages will go down by one. You can scroll through the conversation and see the entire context in which that reply was posted.
This is what Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups and Forte groups are geared towards. They aren't group add-ons to Mastodon, and they aren't geared towards integrating perfectly into Mastodon. Remember that Friendica groups are almost six years older than Mastodon itself.
I'm not sure how exactly Mastodon users receive replies from Friendica groups, Hubzilla forums, (streams) groups or Forte groups. One thing is certain: They will not visibly mention you. Another thing is certain: They will send you replies regardless.
I can only guess what happens: You do get replies. But you get them as new posts in your timeline. And you have to scroll down your timeline until you stumble upon them. If you really want to participate in groups, if you really want to see everything that happens there, you'll have to scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll down your timeline until you hit posts which you know you've seen before. You probably won't be notified about these replies.
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Groups, part 2: Starting a thread
Okay, here comes the twist. Here is where the group magic happens.
If you want to start a new thread in that group, you have to be a member of the group account. Connected to the group account. In Mastospeak, mutually follow the group account.
Then, if you send a new post that mentions the group account, and it is not a reply to another post, then the group account will automatically quote your post and send the quote-post with your post in it to all its connections (followers).
You know quotes Quote-posts Like, quote-tweets What half of Mastodon is so afraid of because it's used on Twitter only to harass and dogpile people That's what I'm talking about. Friendica has had these quote-posts for almost 16 years, and never have they been used for harassment and dogpiling, for never has anyone used Friendica as a drop-in replacement for Twitter. Friendica calls them "shares". And Friendica has used these quote-posts in groups for almost 16 years.
That is, within Friendica (and its descendants), one thing is a wee bit different: If you're on Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte, you have to send a DM with a special mention (
!group instead of group on Friendica, !group on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte) to the group account for this to happen. This automatically activates what's "mentioned only" on Mastodon and makes your post a DM.But from Mastodon accounts and the like, it accepts public posts with
group mentions. That's because Mastodon & Co. don't know !group and !group mentions.(2/9)
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Okay, I guess here's some explanation necessary from a Mastodon point of view.
Groups, part 1: Membership
As for a Friendica group, you can think of it as a Mastodon account, but with a little twist. In order to join that group, you follow it. And if you have your own group, you have one Mastodon account that's your personal account and another Mastodon account that's the group.
However, Friendica is not a Twitter clone. It's a Facebook replacement, and it has been one long before cloning Twitter was considered the one thing the Fediverse does.
Now, Twitter has followers and followed. As does Mastodon because Mastodon is a Twitter clone.
But Facebook doesn't have followers and followed. It has "friends" which in Twitterspeak and Mastospeak are mutual followers. Thus, it's the same on Friendica.
Friendica doesn't have followers and followed as two fully separate things and mutuals as the state when you follow someone and they follow you back. It has connections which are always mutual.
So in order to really join a Friendica group, you must connect to it (Mastodon: follow it), and the group account must confirm the connection (Mastodon: follow you back).
It's basically the same on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. Only that on these three, much unlike on Mastodon and Friendica, the account, the login and the identity are not tied together into one thing. Imagine you could have as many Mastodon-accounts-as-in-identities on one Mastodon-account-as-in-login. Imagine you could switch back and forth between fully independent identities on the same server without having to log out and back in again. Only that Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte refer to a Mastodon-account-as-in-identity as a "channel" and to a Mastodon-account-as-in-login as an "account".
This means that on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, a group (Hubzilla: forum) is a channel with special settings. As a group owner, you have one account/login, and on that one account/login, you have your personal channel, and you have your group/forum channel, and you can switch between them while staying logged in.
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I'd like to see more of that in the fediverse features like events, groups, moderation, different roles, permissions etc. complemented by secure communication!
The Fediverse has literally got just about of this right now. Mastodon doesn't. But the Fediverse does because there's stuff in the Fediverse, as in federated with Mastodon, that has it. And it has had all of this for longer than Mastodon has even existed.
Friendica
Friendica has
- federating events
- groups (which are special accounts)
- private groups
- hidden groups
- moderated groups
- groups with multiple moderators on the same server
- a permissions system
- DMs that are actually private because they're covered by the permissions system rather than just handling who receives a message
- etc.
Friendica is from May, 2010, over five and a half years older than Mastodon.
It was made as an alternative for Facebook right away. It was not meant to be a Facebook clone, though, but better than Facebook while also covering all long-form blogging features.
And Friendica is fully federated with Mastodon. You can follow Friendica accounts from Mastodon, and Friendica users can connect to your Mastodon account from Friendica.
Hubzilla
Hubzilla has
- federating events (in addition to a non-federating CalDAV calendar server)
- groups (which are special channels Hubzilla calls them "forums")
- various independent options of making groups private that can be combined
- hidden groups, groups with multiple admins/moderators anywhere on Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte
- the second-most advanced permissions system in the Fediverse on three levels (entire channel, individual contacts, content) with 17 different permissions and seven or eight channel-wide permission levels for each
- DMs that are actually private because they're covered by the permissions system rather than just handling who receives a message
- optional additional encryption (only works within Hubzilla)
- optional non-federating articles
- optional planning cards
- optional webpages
- optional wikis
- nomadic (fully portable, decentralised, distributed) identity
- etc. etc.
Hubzilla is from March, 2016, ten months older than Mastodon. It was created by Friendica's creator by rebuilding and repurposing a fork of a fork of Friendica.
It is considered a "decentralised social content management system" that can be just about anything you want it to be because it's so modular. Basically, what's incomplete and unstable at best and an unfulfilled promise at worst on Bonfire has been readily available and rock-solid stable for over 10 years on Hubzilla. And even more on top of that.
Red, the Hubzilla precursor, was the first software to establish nomadic identity, something that Bluesky claims to be in the process of inventing from scratch. And that was as early as 2012.
Hubzilla was the very first software to implement ActivityPub. And unlike Mastodon, Hubzilla implemented ActivityPub by the book and largely still does so.
And Hubzilla is optionally fully federated with Mastodon. In fact, this comment that you're reading right now comes from Hubzilla. Like, you're directly speaking with someone on something that has absolutely everything you wish for the Fediverse to have, and that has had all of it for longer than Mastodon has existed.
(streams), Forte
(streams) and Forte have
- federating events (in addition to a non-federating CalDAV calendar server)
- groups (which are special channels)
- private groups
- hidden groups
- groups with multiple admins/moderators anywhere on Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte
- groups with moderated posting and commenting (as in posts and comments from new members will have to be confirmed by the moderators in order to be visible)
- the most advanced permissions system in the Fediverse on three levels (entire channel, individual contacts, content) with 15 different permissions and three or four channel-wide permission levels for each
- DMs that are actually private because they're covered by the permissions system rather than just handling who receives a message
- nomadic (fully portable, decentralised, distributed) identity
- etc.
(streams) is from October, 2021. It was created by Friendica's creator as a fork of a fork of three forks of a fork (of a fork) of Hubzilla.
Forte is from August, 2024. It was created by Friendica's creator as a fork of (streams).
Forte was the first software to establish nomadic identity via ActivityPub.
And both are fully federated with Mastodon (streams) optionally so, but it is by default.
I've made a document with a series of tables which directly compare the features of Mastodon, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte:
In fact, this document is on the very same Hubzilla channel that I'm commenting from right now.
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Aber im Fediverse ist es sooo schlimm, weil man "belehrt" wird, dass es nicht nur Mastodon gibt. Ich kann's wirklich nicht mehr hren.
Die Leute auf Mastodon haben sich einfach gewhnt an ihr schnes, liebes, nettes, kuscheliges, flauschiges, einheitliches Mastodon-Fediverse, das Gargron 2016 (oder 2022) als in sich geschlossenes Netzwerk erfunden haben soll. Oder sie gewhnen sich gerade daran. Genau so wollen sie es also haben.
Erstens haben sie zuerst den Begriff "Mastodon" gelernt und mssen sich jetzt nicht nur die Mhe machen, auch "Fediverse" zu lernen, sondern dann auch noch zu lernen, da diese Begriffe nicht gleichbedeutend sind.
Zweitens empfinden sie alles im Fediverse, was nicht Mastodon ist, als strend. berhaupt, der Gedanke, ihr schnes flauschiges Mastodon-Fediverse mit irgendwas teilen zu mssen, was nicht das schne flauschige Mastodon ist, ist zutiefst verstrend. Das wollen sie nicht. Das soll wieder weg. (Wobei "wieder" Quatsch ist: Friendica und Hubzilla, zwei der "schlimmsten Strenfriede", waren vor Mastodon im Fediverse.)
Na ja, und drittens empfinden sie jede Erklrung, nach der sie nicht ausdrcklich gefragt haben, als bergriffig und Fedisplaining und Reply-Guying oder gar Mansplaining. Aber buchstblich niemand von ihnen wrde je auf die Idee kommen zu hinterfragen, ob das Fediverse wirklich nur aus Mastodon besteht. Das steht fr sie auer Frage, bis sie das Gegenteil erfahren.
brigens gilt man auf Mastodon vielfach schon als Reply-Guy, wenn man jemandem antwortet, der einen nicht vorher erwhnt hat und mit dem man auch nicht beidseitig verbunden ist. Wohlgemerkt, auf Friendica und hier auf Hubzilla, wo Konversationen vllig anders funktionieren und Kommentare vllig anders verteilt werden als auf Mastodon, ist das ein ganz normaler Vorgang.
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My
I do take alt-text and image descriptions more seriously than anyone else in the Fediverse. I'm even working on a wiki about them. But it doesn't make a difference whether I actually describe my images or not, not in terms of repeats (that's what we call boosts here). At least not on my two (streams) channels which I use to post pictures. I no longer post pictures here on Hubzilla because most pictures I'd post are sensitive in some way. (streams) can make Mastodon blank out sensitive images Hubzilla can't.One of my (streams) channels is jup . It specialises in 3-D virtual worlds, so that's very niche. It has 43 connections. Two are PeerTube channels. One is a podcast on Castopod. Two are groups. 13 are only inbound. Another two are my own Hubzilla channels. The rest isn't enough for me to get a significant number of repeats for any of my image posts, especially since my images probably aren't interesting for that many people to begin with.
The other one is jup . It specialises in Fediverse memes, and as these memes are never Mastodon-centric and often not about Mastodon at all, it's very niche again. It has only 12 connections. Two are FediBuzz relays and only inbound. One is a Lemmy community, and I'm not even sure if that connection works properly I don't post to it anyway. One is a Bonfire test account that ought to be dead now. So I'm down to 8 working outbound connections at most.
In fact, this Hubzilla channel that I'm commenting from right now must have well over 700 outbound connections, maybe over 800 by now. I could completely go out of my way describing images like in . But as you can see, not a single repeat, not even a single like. I've looked through my image posts. I couldn't find a single one with even only one measly repeat.
Either my reach is minimal in spite of these figures. Or the topics of my image posts are so niche and obscure that they simply aren't interesting for anyone. Or there are fewer Fediverse users who appreciate my posts and my image descriptions than there are Mastodon users who mute or block me for posting more than 500 characters at once. The latter means that a proper pair of descriptions for an in-world image costs me more reach than it grants me.
So I can't confirm that alt-text will give me more boosts.
Still, I'll continue to refuse to post any images without what I consider sufficient image descriptions and explanations. So don't worry about that. (But no, I won't go back and add image descriptions by my current standards to my old undescribed images, nor will I go back and upgrade older, outdated image descriptions that are substandard now.)
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People, especially those in recovery, need to have safe spaces and CWs allow for self moderation (giving the person on the receiving end control over what they allow into their space).
Ironically, Mastodon isn't even particularly good at that. Not by overall Fediverse standards.
How Mastodon does it
Mastodon handles CWs by having them put into a text field that was invented on identi.ca in 2008 as a summary field. Thus, CWs have to come from the poster. And the poster has no other choice but to force the same CWs upon absolutely everyone else, regardless of whether they need that particular CW or not, regardless of what other CWs someone may need. Your posts will be over-CW'd for some and under-CW'd for others.
What's even worse is that this and only this is deeply engrained in Mastodon's culture. From a Mastodon POV, it's completely unimaginable that it could possibly be any different. It's actually being enforced upon the whole Fediverse by Mastodon users.
CWs would be better if they didn't come from the poster. If they were automatically generated on the reader's side, individually for each reader and their needs, based on text filtering.
Mastodon can do that actually. But it's cumbersome. It's as cumbersome as Mastodon's filters altogether: Each keyword needs its own filter defined and adjusted. Next to no-one knows that Mastodon can do that, also because Twitter can't, and who expects Mastodon to have features that Twitter doesn't Lastly, it was introduced in October, 2022, with Mastodon 4.0, too late for it to become part of Mastodon's culture.
How Hubzilla does it: Filters
Now let's look at Hubzilla. (Friendica, which Hubzilla was indirectly derived from by its own creator, may be similar, but not quite as advanced can probably say more about it as a part-time Friendica user.)
For what Mastodon's filters could do before 4.0, Hubzilla only needs one blocklist. Adding a new keyword is as easy as adding a new line to the blocklist. For reader-side CW generation which Mastodon's filters learned in October, 2022, Hubzilla has an optional extra filter list named "NSFW". It has had it from its very beginnings, and it has inherited it from Friendica. Just about everyone in the whole software family agrees: Having your own CWs generated only for you is better than having the same CWs forced upon you as upon everyone else while misusing the summary/abstract field for it.
Hubzilla also has an allowlist for the whole channel. It optionally has one blocklist and one allowlist per contact so you can filter certain things coming from certain contacts and not coming from all the others. It supports regular expressions. And it has a very advanced filter syntax for the blocklists and allowlists that, for example, allows you to filter by whether a message is a repeat (Mastodon: boost), whether it's public or restricted, whether it's a top post or a comment, from whom it came etc. etc.
How Hubzilla does it: Permissions
But self-moderation doesn't stop at filters on Hubzilla. There's also the permissions system, the second-most advanced one in the Fediverse, second only to Hubzilla's own descendants, (streams) and Forte, again created by the same developer. Hubzilla's permissions system works on up to three levels: for the whole channel (Mastodon: account), for each individual contact (Mastodon: follower/followed) and often also for individual content (posts/threads, images/media/other files etc.).
Some examples of you can do with the permissions system:
- You can allow only your contacts or only certain ones of your contacts to see your public profile. (In fact, you can make additional profiles and assign them to certain contacts. But both only works with contacts on certain server applications and not with Mastodon contacts.)
- You can allow only your contacts or only certain ones of your contacts to see what other contacts you have. (Again, this only works with contacts on certain server applications and not with Mastodon contacts.)
- You can allow only your contacts or only certain ones of your contacts or nobody at all to see your previous posts. (Again, this only works with contacts on certain server applications and not with Mastodon contacts.)
- You can only allow posts from certain ones of your contacts onto your stream. (This does not affect comments and DMs.)
- You can allow only your contacts or certain ones of your contacts or nobody at all to like, dislike and comment on your posts.
- You can completely disallow comments on certain posts of yours.
- You can only allow your contacts or certain ones of your contacts or nobody at all to send you DMs.
- You can only allow
- your contacts
- certain ones of your contacts
- the members of one of your privacy groups (Mastodon: lists on steroids)
- a custom combination of privacy groups and certain contacts minus certain other contacts and privacy groups
- only yourself
There's even more: You don't only own your own posts. You also own all comments on your posts. You and not whoever wrote them. This means you can moderate your own conversations by deleting comments from it. (That is, if someone on Mastodon comments on your post, and you remove it, you do not delete their Mastodon toot from their Mastodon account. You only remove it from your conversation.)
This is real serious self-moderation power.
Hubzilla is entirely built around moderating your own channel and your own stream yourself and, if it is activated, the public stream (Mastodon: local or federated timeline, depending on the admin configuration) along with it. Mastodon's filters work by deleting stuff from your inbox, but letting it onto and keeping it on the local or federated timeline regardless. Hubzilla's filters and permissions work by rejecting it altogether. Content that you reject, and that nobody else on your hub allows in, doesn't enter the hub at all and thus doesn't show up on the pubstream either.
By the way, this also works with forums (groups): You can make a forum private by only allowing its contacts to see its profile. You can make its membership private by only allowing its contacts to see its other contacts. You can hide it from directories. You can make its conversations private by limiting reading permission to only contacts.
How (streams) and Forte do it
As I've said, (streams) and Forte go another bit further.
They don't rely mostly on templates called "roles" to define the permissions of your channel and of your contacts. You can switch individual permissions on and off anytime.
They have an extra switch to let repeats in or not. Hubzilla needs a filter syntax line for that.
And they have the option to make reply control even more advanced: Next to entirely allowing and entirely disallowing comments, you can allow only your own contacts to comment on a certain post. You can generally allow comments on your posts for a certain period of time. And you can allow comments on a certain post only until a certain point in the future.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # Den ewigen September haben wir lngst. Nur ist das hier der ewige November, und zwar seit November 2022. Ein bestndiger Zustrom von Newbies, die ber das Fediverse nix wissen, vor allem nicht, da es mehr ist als nur Mastodon und auch nicht auf Mastodon basiert, und von denen viele komplett lernresistent sind.
Die Leidtragenden sind dann die, die selbst nicht auf Mastodon sind, die aber von genau diesen Leuten behandelt werden, als wren sie auf Mastodon. Oder bekmpft, weil es sie im Mastodon-Fediverse doch eigentlich gar nicht geben darf. Die sich herumrgern mssen mit Sachen, die von solchen Leuten "frs Fediverse", aber hart nur gegen Mastodon gebaut worden und zu nichts anderem kompatibel sind.
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Last updated: 2026-01-16
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